UPDATE - Dog's safety or neighbour's sanity?

    • Gold Top Dog

    UPDATE - Dog's safety or neighbour's sanity?

     We have had some complaints from the neighbour whose house is on our back fence about our dogs barking. They couldn't tell us who was barking most or what they were barking at, or even when specifically, just that they were making a lot of noise. I assumed they were barking at each other over bones, and that maybe they were bored. So we took the bones out of the yard and have been taking them for longer morning walks before we both leave for work. They've also been getting things like Kongs to keep them busy. Today I have a day off so we put the dogs in their daytime yard as usual and I sat in the house to listen to what happened. They had bottles with treats in them that kept them busy for the first ten minutes or so. Then they barked at each other over them a couple of times and swapped bottles and whatnot. Then Penny went and sat at gate and barked on and off but mostly on for the next 30 minutes. When she wasn't barking at the gate she was barking at Kivi, who would bark back. An hour of this was enough to drive me nutty and I went out and opened the gate and 15 minutes on we have blissful silence.

    Problem is, the whole point of that gate is that there's a pool on the other side of it. The pool has a skamper ramp in it, and I know for a fact the dogs can climb out via the stairs at the shallow end, but we have put both dogs in the pool to try to teach them where to get out and have so far been unsuccessful. I think we have fixed it so that Penny can get out, but I haven't tested it. Kivi has only fallen in once when he was a pup and has since been pretty careful around the pool, but if he went in he would just cling to the side and scream. If our neighbours were home they would come over, but if they weren't, he could well drown.

    The whole point of putting in the pool fence was to keep the dogs away from the pool. However, because of how close the pool is to the house, the fence blocks access to the house and the deck where the dogs like to be when they are outside when we are home. Half the point of getting another dog was that they could keep each other company during the day when we weren't home. So what can I do? We have been putting Penny in the yard away from the deck and the pool for over a month, now, and she still hates it enough that she will sit there at the gate and bark as loud as she can for half an hour or more. I don't know how long she goes because I couldn't stand it anymore. Our neighbour's house is VERY close to that yard, and a little higher. I can only imagine how much worse it is there. But aside from the noise, Penny is not habitually a nuisance barker. I can only assume she is quite unhappy back there away from the house. We have never let her out while she was barking, but it doesn't make any difference to her. She just wants out. She doesn't understand why she should be there. I don't think she barks like that every day, but I also don't think she will get any better if she is still doing it more than a month on.

    At this point, I am thinking a pool training session is in order. I tested the waters in the pool yesterday and it's almost warm enough to swim in finally, but you'd want it to be a short swim! Penny loves swimming and she will keep her head if she falls in, but Kivi doesn't like water and I don't want to force him in until he's comfortable enough that he won't panic. I still harbour hopes of turning him into a swimmer. It took 6 months of coaxing to turn Penny's terror of water around, but I'm so glad I put in that work because now she loves it so much.
     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Can you keep them inside while you are gone? My neighbors have two dogs now that they leave out - and all the poor things do it bark, it really gets annoying, fast - esp. when they wake you up on your only day off at 7 in the morning....

    At least if they bark inside, it's not as loud.

    • Gold Top Dog

     I'd rather not leave them indoors for what would likely be 10 or 11 hours. I know for a fact they can hold it that long, but really, they would prefer to be outside. I haven't heard a peep out of them for the past 2 hours. They are asleep on the deck, where apparently Kivi would rather be and Penny "needs" to be. It seems unfair to leave them inside all the time when they have a yard they do actually enjoy with lots of garden and shade and things to dig up and destroy.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Honestly, if it were me, I'd put the dogs inside, even though I realize you'd rather not due to how long you'd be gone. 

    I'm a worrier, and even with a pool training session, I'd be reluctant to leave them unattended with access to the pool.  Actually, I'd be reluctant to leave Jack with access to the pool, even though I know he knows how to swim, is a strong swimmer, and does not like pools at all and therefore would never deliberately go in.

    On the other hand, I used to work evenings and wanted to throttle our neighbors, who had a husky they kept chained in the front yard barking all day for the first month they lived there.

    • Gold Top Dog

     I'm worried that they'd go mad inside. Before Penny was good with Kivi we had her in the pool side of the yard and him in the other side. She fell in the pool one morning while my partner was in the shower and he was the only one home. She was pretty shaken up, but he got her out. After that, Penny was inside all day every day for a few weeks. In the end, I relented because when I went to leave of a morning she would try to sneak outside and when I called her back she would stand there and refuse to come. Sometimes I had to pratically carry her inside. For a dog that normally loves coming inside, I felt that was pretty bad. A couple of weeks afterwards, we moved her in with Kivi. Kivi is at that stage where he needs lots of things to do and he's quite active. I don't think we could find extra time to take him for longer walks in the morning. It's coming into summer and I could walk them again on my own when I got back home, but I think I will find it difficult to find the energy, especially once winter comes again. My dogs love it outside. I don't want to deprive them of it. Perhaps we can up the priority of fencing the other side of the pool and keep them on the deck when we are gone. It will be expensive, though, as we were planning to do that side in glass. And I just blew most of my savings on a motorbike.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Could you get one of those baby barrier fences to put around the pool? My friends got one when they had their baby - it just rolls away. They aren't real sturdy, but the image alone should be enough for most dogs.

    EDIT: like this - http://poolbarrier.com/

    • Gold Top Dog

    corvus

    they were making a lot of noise.


    corvus

    things to dig up and destroy.

    corvus

    Kivi is at that stage where he needs lots of things to do and he's quite active.

    (emphasis added by me) Honestly, IMO, this sounds like a bad case of boredom. Excessive barking, digging, and destroying things are all ways dogs keep themselves occupied when they're bored. Yes, it's nice they have a yard, but really what is there to do out there alone? Nothing except what they're already doing. 10-11 hours a day is a LONG time to be all alone with pent up eneregy!

    Could you take them out for a LOOOONNNNGGG walk before you leave for the day? Or, is there anyway you can get a dog walker to come by to take them out for a long walk during the afternoon? Or a doggie day care?

    I wouldn't leave them outside for 10-11 hours alone either...too many bad things can happen when they're not supervised for a long period of time, especially since now you're getting complaints about them.

    Best of luck!

    • Gold Top Dog

    BlackLabbie
    I wouldn't leave them outside for 10-11 hours alone either...too many bad things can happen when they're not supervised for a long period of time

     

    Bad things like what? Our yard and garden is quite secure. There are no poisons they can get access to and they don't to my knowledge actually eat the plants they sometimes pull up. We don't have any large predators in this country and I make a point of not having any snake refuges in the yard. We have just bought breakaway collars for them so they can't get themselves caught on anything. That yard is more dog safe than my kitchen, which is where they would have to be if they were not in the yard for the time we are not there.

     We did have someone coming around to play with Kivi until recently when we decided he didn't need it anymore. I stand by this assessment. Kivi is not the problem. He digs the odd hole and pulls up the odd plant and sometimes gets barky with Penny when she has taken his stuff or won't play with him, but I listened today and he was not making much noise. There's far more to do in the garden than there is in house. He has Kongs, bones he buried once and can dig up, a sand pit, we fill plastic bottles with treats and hide things for them to find. We rotate toys every few days and regularly buy or make new ones. We provide cardboard things stuffed with treats for them to rip up. And if he does get bored, I don't mind if he digs the odd hole or pulls up a plant. He seems to be doing less of it lately. Whatever floats his boat.

    Penny is also not bored. As soon as I gave her access to the deck she went to sleep on it for most of the day. She likes the bottles with treats, too. She is also a great fan of Kongs. At the end of our walk this morning she was dragging her feet. We often take them to the park before we leave in the morning so Kivi can run and play and Penny can go at her own pace.

    Anyway, we are still monitoring the situation. The neighbours dropped in to let us know how much the dogs were barking last week and have offered to come around and play with them if they keep at it for ages. Our other neighbours keep an ear out for them as well. I resent the suggestion that the dogs are too bored. That is such a classic I had thought of that and dismissed it already for my own reasons.

    We have talked about a lot of possibilities if they are bored and still barking next week, including professional walkers, but for the moment I think the problem is just that Penny doesn't want to be in the backyard. She's set in her ways sometimes.
     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Erica, those fences look great. If only I could find one in Australia! 

    • Gold Top Dog

    corvus
    Bad things like what?

     

     

    What comes to my mind is theft [you have two purebred,adorable dogs] or some human coming along and messing with them.I can see why you wouldn't want them in so long.I can also see the dangers of the pool.I think they would do well contained closer to your home if Penny feels safer there.Is it possible to gate the deck off ? It's in your dog's best interest to keep the neighbors happy too.An angry neighbor might take it upon themself to end the barking.

    Tena

    • Gold Top Dog

    I'm SURE they've got them.... somewhere. I would call around to some pool stores and see what they've got. Those types roll away, so they are pretty convienent.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I would bring them in.  If they get destructive indoors, perhaps there are outstanding issues that need to be worked on.  I'm a firm believe that dogs who are sufficiently exercised and get mental stimulation mainly sleep all day.  I have always wondered what my dogs do during the day and the past few times I've been sick or had a day off, I've observed that they sleep.  Every once in a while they get up to change spots or get a drink, and sometimes Coke sits and watches out the window but that's it.  They often don't even care if I want to walk them during the day and if I let them out they lay in the shade.  So, if they are just resting, then I'd rather have them inside.  I suppose the environment is a big factor but where I live I cannot guarantee that animals won't climb a 6' privacy fence (not that I have one anyway).  Some idiot could break into the yard and let them out, they could bark and someone would call animal control....just too many things that I can't guarantee I can prevent unless I have an actual kennel/run that is also fence on TOP.

    If mine barked I'd definitely keep them in.  They probably bark simply b/c they can.  No one is around to address it or correct it so they will just keep doing it as they please. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    4HAND

    corvus
    Bad things like what?

    What comes to my mind is theft [you have two purebred,adorable dogs] or some human coming along and messing with them.

    An angry neighbor might take it upon themself to end the barking.

    Exactly.

    • Gold Top Dog

    As it happens, I kind of feel like they would be safer from theft in the backyard where Penny doesn't want to be. The side gate that leads to the carport is always padlocked and so they are away from easy access there. I've been a bit leery of letting people take them for walks when we aren't there because I don't know that it's a particularly safe situation for them to be comfortable with people coming into the yard and taking them out of it.

    On the plus side, Kivi Tarro is the only Finnish Lapphund in the entire Shire. He's very distinctive and lots of people know him and who he belongs to by sight. Penny is reasonably distinctive, too. Our complaining neighbour dropped around last night and brought some lamb chops for them as a sign of good will. We had a good chat and she gave the dogs cuddles. She is at least an animal lover, just not a lover of barking. That's fair. She told me she was going to buy leads and come around and take them for walks if they were being really noisy! I tried to tell her it wasn't necessary and she could achieve the same thing just by playing ball with them or something. I am not sure just what is going to come of all of this, but our other two neighbours are retired and home a lot and have also offered to drop around if they are noisy. I trust those two. We live in a small cul-de-sac and everyone sort of looks out for everyone else. They know exactly who comes to our house when we aren't there.

    Anyway, at this point they aren't destructive inside, but I would be worried that they would become destructive if I had them inside all day everyday. It's a far smaller area with less to do than outside. Yesterday they did sleep most of the day once I let them out and even Kivi didn't do a great deal. We were going to get the pool fenced on the deck side of the house as well, but that priority went down when we realised how much it would cost as we wanted to do glass. We think we might split them up again until we are confident Kivi can swim. Penny has fallen in the pool more often than he has, but at least she keeps her head and I think she can get out. I might test it again today if it stops raining. I'm pretty sure Kivi would not be able to get out unless he fell in at the stairs. Ramps are all well and good, but an animal has to be relaxed enough to swim to the ramp rather than cling to the side.

    • Gold Top Dog

     I am just trying to balance happy healthy dogs with happy neighbours. I don't think it's fair to confine the dogs somewhere they don't want to be, but I would obviously never forgive myself if I came home to find one of them had drowned in the pool. It's annoying that we can't fence the pool without cutting off access to half of the backyard one way or another. I think the barking would decrease significantly if Penny has the deck and the pool area and she would be happy, but it's not the situation I want. We were planning to eventually put a verrandah and a door in the back of the house which would probably go a long way to making that yard a place where Penny wouldn't mind spending the day. I think we have decided to try separating them again and have Penny where she wants to be and Kivi in the safe yard in the back. The neighbour has agreed to continue giving feedback on the barking so we know if it makes a difference.