Training methods for older dogs

In this same training section there is another thread called clicker links and videos. Free info sites to get you started, as well as links to materials you can buy, if you so choose. A helpful book for me was "Everything Book about dog training" (I think).

Here's a link to a clicker page.

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/index.htm

Which methods to use is a loaded question, but I think older dogs are just as trainable as any other dog.  My in-laws continuously try to excuse their dog's poor manners by saying he's too old to learn any better, but in just two 5 minute sessions I taught him to "down" and to click and Easy button and I'm by no means a professional trainer!

Thank you both. I will look into that. I was always kind of under the impression a puppy would be easier too, but I taught our 8 yo old to shake in 2 quick sessions too, and I have been doing a little looking around on the rescue pages and there is a lot about how trainable older dogs are. Julie

no, puppies have the attention span of a gnat. Older dogs generally can pay attention much longer and attention is key to learning.

Ok, having gone now and read a little about the clicker training, I have a question. WHat happens when the dog no longer gets the click? You aren't going to have a clicker in your pocket all the time, or at least i don't want to have to, and eventually when you have a trained dog, I wouldn't think you would carry it around at all unless you were working on something new.

With the 2 dogs i have now, there would be no opportunity to take an actual class because they are both terribly car sick, so if i would go with this method it would be on my own, with whatever help I could get from book/video/ this site. Julie

spiritsmom

Ok, having gone now and read a little about the clicker training, I have a question. WHat happens when the dog no longer gets the click? You aren't going to have a clicker in your pocket all the time, or at least i don't want to have to, and eventually when you have a trained dog, I wouldn't think you would carry it around at all unless you were working on something new.

You need to intermittently reinforce the behaviour, without the click.

Sometimes he may just get a "good boy!", other times he may get petting, other times he might get a bit of kibble, dog treat, cheese or whatever you might have on you.  Generally speaking, the more time goes by, the more practised and reliable the dog gets at it, the rarer the treats become until he is only being given "primary" reinforcers (like food) for absolutely super duper EXCELLENT responses and/or responses in a new situation.

Does that help?

You've totally got to read the whole section on the clicker.  Check out clickerlessons.com for a really quick rundown of the whole process.  For more in depth troubleshooting you'll want to get one of the excellent books that are out there.  C/T has been around for so long now that you can most likely find a book that will suit your style of learning or the amount of time you have to dedicate to the process.  

I have to ditto what has been said about older dogs versus puppies.  Older dogs have lots of advantage over puppies.

1. Longer attention span
2. Experience with "knowing how to learn" in most cases.
3. Experience with the pleasant rewards to be incurred when one pleases people.
4. No "brain falling out the ears" phases during brain development, as occurs with puppies.
5. Mature cognitive ability
6. Not a slave to physical functions - this particularly applies in houseclean training or crate training
7. May have experience with self-imposed impulse control (patience)
8. Physically ready for any structured training, assuming good health
   

Puppies have a few advantages over older dogs

1. Cute
2. Cute
3. Adorable
4. Did I mention they are cute?

How old are these "older" dogs?  If they are seniors they may be settled in their ways and probably by this time don't have any behavior problems.  What is your goal exactly?  Basic Obedience?  Tricks?  If this is a senior dog, you may not want to mess around with its drives or motivations.  You never know what other behaviors may come along and you may not like them.  For example, if you food treat, countersurfing may surface.  I would also recommend you watch your dogs for signs of stress during training.  Clicker Training and Positive trainings are not all positive.  Yes, the dog gets pleasure when its rewarded with a treat but the dogs gets displeasure when you withhold the treat or timing between trick and treat is not at the speed the dog wants it.  This is why Clicker Training is Conflict Training. 

What I like to do is train as I am living with the dog.  Very seldom do I do formal training sessions.  A dog will naturally Come, will naturally Sit, will naturally lay, will naturally stayput.  During these times, I reinforce with affection.  The dogs gets it in no time and because it is in the content of normal living, no conflicts.

DPU - you brushed very easily past the older dog that does have bad habits.  I see many such.  Senior dogs are quite capable of countersurfing, jumping, biting to get attention, nervous habits, dog-on-dog aggression, people aggression (I just evaluated a ten year old BC with both people and dog aggression issues) - in fact they can have any problem younger dogs can have.  The handling they get up to the point they end up in rescue can hide such issues (dog in backyard all the time, or lived alone with a single caretaker, or was a stay-on-the-farm dog) or else such dogs can have the potential for a problems that only come out when transferred to a new living situation - ie, the dog lived with a littermate or other resident dog who ruled with an iron fist and never allowed problems to surface.

It is a myth that senior dogs are "set in their ways" and it's a deadly one for adoptable seniors who wait in shelters.   Just as they can have the same issues,  the challenges of any age dog can be resolved in the same ways.

My post was directed at the OP to find out more information about the "older" dogs.  Many a times here, blanket suggestions and recommendations are made without regard to key information about the dog and the owner's relationship with the dog.  For example, I would never recommend trying to increase an elderly dog's drive and make them excitable when their joints are becoming fragile.

I really don't understand your post at all because you have advocated PTS of the dogs you describe in favor of saving the younger ones....something to do with spending resources responsibly.  Poohoo to you, my rescue group takes in a good cross section of dogs hard to place.  And you know, we foster homes fight over the seniors when one comes in.  I think the training that is approach is definitely depending on the dog's elements.  As we saw in other post, your attitude, your approach, what you teach, and how you teach is different for a puppy as well as a senior dog.

There are certain principles one can start with - they are dogs, they are companions, etc - if one doesn't have a consistent starting place then what is one working from?  Like Seinfield's  TV show, it's The Training Method About Nothing.

I can't really address the second paragraph of your post, I'm sorry to say.  I've never put to sleep an old dog to take in younger dogs if that is what you meant (it's really not clear, I apologize if I'm just being thick here).  I'm also not sure how you can imply I don't take in hard to place dogs?

What I do is different in the application for every dog, but the essentials are based on consistent principles, as well as I can as someone still trying to learn what these dogs are teaching.  Dogs are individuals, but they are also dogs.

My only point, and I'll say it again because it can't be said enough times:  Older dogs, senior dogs, are not set in their ways.  I've taken dogs as old as 12 and 13 and taught them new things, exciting things.  One dog was a kennel dog his whole life.  I got him at 12 and he learned to play frisbee, hold down a couch, ask to go out, and also where all my sheep typically hid, and a new set of whistles because I couldn't blow the old ones.  He learned all that the first week I had him.  His mind was that sharp until the day he passed away - from old age - at fifteen.

I once got an eleven year old dog who only wanted to chase cars because that's what he'd done most of his life for fun - raced them down the fenceline.  My fence at the time was 250 yards long and was literally six feet from the road.  A veritable raceway for dogs so inclined.

I had to retrain that eleven year old dog not to react to cars.   It took an awful lot of time but it happened.   That dog stayed with us too, by the way, and also died of old age about five years later (age 16).

What in heaven's name is "Poohoo?"     According to the urban dictionary I just got called a "person bad at things"?  or a "wuss"?  Those are different.  Perhaps you should PM me and let me know in what sense you intended it.

 Also, for the lurkers, remember that "clicker" training is all about marking the behavior you want, then reinforcing.  For the deaf older dog, you can substitute a flashlight (get one of those small penlights).  You can also use a "yes" hand signal for deaf dogs - I use a fist in an up and down motion (so the dog can see the signal at a distance - they see movement and contrast better than anything).  So, to get the dog to learn what fist means, you simply make a fist and feed a treat, make a fist and feed a treat, and repeat for about 20 reps.  Then, proceed as directed in the lessons.

I like this site for actual skills training: www.clickerlessons.com  And, Karen Pryor's site is one of the best: www.clickertraining.com 

As the owner of an adopted Yorkie who went to her first obedience class at age 15 (she's 19, going on 20 now), I can tell you that an older dog can learn every bit as well as a younger dog.  It's usually only the physical issues that you need to consider, except if the dog is cognitively impaired, in which case you can't teach it anything new - same as humans with Alzheimer's.  Short term memory is shot.

I am a lover of older dogs - and that's what we all get, if we are lucky, even if a pup is what we started with.  

brookcove

My only point, and I'll say it again because it can't be said enough times:  Older dogs, senior dogs, are not set in their ways. 

And my only point is that older dogs, seniors may come to you settled, meaning calm and nonreactive, behavior problem free.  Why disrupt this by making the dog biddable to the human wish.  I am only saying be cautious in your training when introducing a change in the dog's life and be sure you are doing it for the right reasons and the dog is physically able to comply.

In my experience with fostering, I have never met a dog that could be depicted "set in their ways", which seems to have a negative connotation and something that could be attached to the senior dog by constantly repeating "set in their ways", even if the intentions are good.