What to do with Jack???

I have to put Cheyanne away if there is food around. She doesnt counter surf or table surf so I am thankful for that. She doesnt get in the garbage either. But if a person has food you are sure to get a stare down. And if Samantha has food she is on her like a kid in the candy store. She knows the minute Samantha lets her guard down it's easy snacking from there. And if there are crumbs she will find every single one.

Giving out treats to everyone is a big no no with Cheyanne around. She has to go to another room because she pushes everyone else out of the way. We are working on that though. Now she gets treat first then she has to back up and lay down. And if she does that then she will get one last treat after everyone else. She has picked up on that pretty quickly. 

So the only solution I have come up with is putting her away until the food is gone. I have come to the conclusion that it's a Lab thing and when it comes to food they will do anything for it.

 This is a dog that should never see the treat coming.  When you train outdoors, use a bait bag that you can open with one hand, but keep behind your back.  Teach "leave it".  Clickerlessons.com has a section on that.  Teach him that he has to sit/stay until the food bowl hits the floor (if my hound can do it, so can Jack).  Use less desirable treats to train with.  A seriously food motivated dog does not need roast beef or liver treats if you are working on "down" in the living room.  Save the good stuff for training in the face of distractions.  Use treat cups with Cheerios in them positioned around the house (I put them on bookcases, in cupboards, top of the bathroom medicine cabinet, in the fridge, on the mantel, etc.)  You can use a clicker, or your marker word, then go get the treat and toss it onto the floor as his reward.  That way, it isn't on you.  So, he'll get used to the fact that there's no point jumping on you, or nipping at your hand, because the treat comes from wherever...not directly out of your bag or hand.
 

 He actually will sit and stay for the food--he just whines until he sees us pick the bowl up.  He has learned from experience that if we pick the bowl up and he keeps whining we will "freeze" until he is quiet.  Now, you can tell that it is taking every ounce of self control he can muster to remain in a sit/stay, but he will do it until he hears the release word--then he will inhale the food like there is no tomorrow--often without chewing.

We have also been working on a more solid "leave it."  He does know it, but often when something falls he is on it before you have time to react (he is seriously *that fast*).  What I have been doing is throwing kibbles on the floor and telling him to "leave it," and releasing him to eat them when he complies.  We have only done this a ferw times so it is too soon to tell if it is working.

The less valuable treat thing is a good idea.  I used to bring kibbles to my Rally class but the instructor told me that I should not because I was not "paying" him well enough.  The problem is that I could have the smelliest treats in the world in my pocket, and if we passed a ball of fuzz that was sitting on the floor, it didn't matter, because Jack would lunge for it as we were going by, just in case it was food.  I actually tend to feed him before any classes to take the edge off somewhat.

Just out of curiosity, how do you handle the reward cup thing with multiple dogs?       

The cups are only going to be interesting to your food motivated dog, and only because when you make the Cup Dive, he'll quickly start recognizing the movement.  Yup, I have done the treats stashed all over (it was baggies - Zhi was the dog).  We also did little toys and balls stashed all over with a dog that was similarly brain dead, insane, about toys.  She was so bad we couldn't get her to leave us (where the tug was) to develop any interest in the target on the flyball box.

For us, it worked because it transferred the food drive/toy drive, to us - made us more interesting.  The balls of fuzz and interesting smells or movements never turn into food/toys, but very often food or toys descend from the Benevolent Random Treat/Toy Giver! 

I had to ask for a down, then dispense the item, however.  Like your dog, the appearance of the beloved resource would immediately make the brains fall out the ears.  But they got the down/treat or toy connection quickly.   You've got to do your part and make it all fun and make sure there's actually something cool enough about you to catch his interest.

Zhi still sits and burns holes in our heads during dinner but she's very controlled about it.  She's four, so there's hope for Jack.  Jen was able to do full runs in flyball before anyone else in class once she transferred her attention to me, learned the target, and got the whole work/reward connection figured out in that context.

Just out of curiosity, how do you handle the reward cup thing with multiple dogs?

The cups are high enough that the tallest dog cannot reach.  I train the dogs separately until they are ready for an increase in distraction level.  And, sometimes, life isn't fair and you don't get a cookie just because the dog next to you did;-))  I also use teach group "leave its" and sometimes will have two lie down while one sits, etc.  Sometimes, I just say "sit" and the first dog with its butt on the floor gets the cookie first!
 

spiritdogs

Use treat cups with Cheerios in them positioned around the house (I put them on bookcases, in cupboards, top of the bathroom medicine cabinet, in the fridge, on the mantel, etc.) 

This sounds like a great idea, but with my 2 food hounds, they'd be tearing down the bookcase or whatever to see if there was more to be found later.

Sassy is food motivated just enough to make training easier and she's also motivated by attention or toys. Buffy though is scary food motivated and I believe that alone started almost all of the early fights between them. We learned quick not to have food or treats nearby when they were together, but one time they got into a fight over a leaf (I'm sure Buffy thought it was something else). I don't have any advice but just wanted to say I understand how difficult it can be.

During training, you can LOWER the value of treats so you can use them as a lure without him getting too distracted and/or taking your hand off (if that's how you train).  You can keep the "OMG!" treats out of sight to use as a surprise jackpot when he does something REALLY well.

Another option, (which you should definitiely look at if ALL food is "OMG!" food to him) is to teach "touch" using a target stick.  Teach it using shaping, so he doesn't get the treat till after he has already presented the behaviour.  This gives you something to guide him with; something you know he will follow but won't be distracted by... and again, your fingers are safe.

I think you need to teach him some self control exercises in as many different areas of life as possible, but especially the ones that involve food.  Example: he needs to remain in a sit or a down while his food is placed on the floor, if his bum comes up, so does his bowl.  It will be beneficial for him to learn that he gets what he wants by not striving after it.  This should definiteiy go for all food, treats, chews and bones, but implement it wherever you can to help him generalise - at doors, getting in or out of the car, having his lead put on, when walking etc.

What is he fed on?  What is the history of his diet?  Is he a kibble dog, or raw fed, or home cooked or what?  Have you tried changing his diet and does that affect his appetite?  I think kibble fed dogs are often hungry a lot of the time because the allotted food doesn't take up that much room in the gut.  JMO though.... not by any means scientific, but perhaps worth pondering

He leaps for anything that falls on the floor with amazing speed, usually before Sally even knows that something has hit the floor--it's like one of those Discovery Channel shows where they have to slow the action down to even see what has happened.

why do people complain about very high drive dogs? they are so much easier to train than low-drive dogs. This dog will do anything for food- all you have to do is teach him more appropriate ways to get food. For example, there's no reason why a dog can't learn to never-eat food dropped on the floor until released to it. Dogs who nip at fingers never get food; dogs who take food gently get food. Dogs who whine don't get fed. Dogs who look away or move away from food are more likely to get food. You can easily teach a dog to run out of the kitchen (away from the food) and go lie quietly in his feeding station while you prepare the food.

mudpuppy

why do people complain about very high drive dogs? they are so much easier to train than low-drive dogs. This dog will do anything for food-

This advise is very risky and could lead to more obsessive behavior associated with food.  Jack has been this way since puppyhood and I think it will get worse and worse unless the trend is reversed.  If this was my dog, I would do very structured feeding and snack time.  I would not expect any behavior whatsoever for food.  I would do feeding in the presence of other dogs making it a social event.  I would observe the dog to see what other motivators the dog is interested in and create situations to increase the interests.  

Chuffy

  It will be beneficial for him to learn that he gets what he wants by not striving after it. 

Eko is enormously interested in food, and the above is the principle by which we operate. He's still young and his impulse control is not 100%, but he gets that self control is the path to yummies.

cakana

spiritdogs

Use treat cups with Cheerios in them positioned around the house (I put them on bookcases, in cupboards, top of the bathroom medicine cabinet, in the fridge, on the mantel, etc.) 

This sounds like a great idea, but with my 2 food hounds, they'd be tearing down the bookcase or whatever to see if there was more to be found later.

Sassy is food motivated just enough to make training easier and she's also motivated by attention or toys. Buffy though is scary food motivated and I believe that alone started almost all of the early fights between them. We learned quick not to have food or treats nearby when they were together, but one time they got into a fight over a leaf (I'm sure Buffy thought it was something else). I don't have any advice but just wanted to say I understand how difficult it can be.

Well, nothing wrong with putting the treats in a cup inside a closet up on a shelf, right?  I do know how hard it can be to work two dogs side by side without having food fights.  Sequoyah would be the one around here who thinks anything that hits the floor is hers.  She never gets really nasty, but will do quite a garfff at the other dogs, and you never know when Maska or Sioux might decide that the morsel belonged to them.  Even at her age, Fergie is not beyond that either.  After all, they're dogs:-))  But, the same thing that can work against you can work for you if you are skillful enough.  If not, separate eating stations are fine, and so is training the dogs separately.

This advise is very risky and could lead to more obsessive behavior associated with food.  Jack has been this way since puppyhood and I think it will get worse and worse unless the trend is reversed.  If this was my dog, I would do very structured feeding and snack time.  I would not expect any behavior whatsoever for food. 

so you want to teach the dog he has ZERO control over how and when he gets food? and set up a "learned helplessness" situation where he has been taught nothing he does can affect whether or not he gets food? sounds SO mentally healthy. It's very empowering and mentally beneficial to teach dogs appropriate ways to ask their owners for the things they need like food. And very beneficial and empowering to teach dogs to control their impulses around things they really want. Keep in mind this dog has to be kept hungry his entire life for his own health; you can't "meet his needs" and cure this problem without crippling him.

I also don't think dogs can truly become obsessed with food. real obsessions are quite different than having high drive for food or toys or prey.

Chuffy

What is he fed on?  What is the history of his diet?  Is he a kibble dog, or raw fed, or home cooked or what?  Have you tried changing his diet and does that affect his appetite?  I think kibble fed dogs are often hungry a lot of the time because the allotted food doesn't take up that much room in the gut.  JMO though.... not by any means scientific, but perhaps worth pondering

Very interesting point! After years of feeding inappropriate table scraps and kibble with lots of grain products my girl gets a grainfree diet.She used to shake with anticipation at feeding time and beg shamelesly.Now she still loves food but she doesn't obsess over it.I wondered if all those grains [and assorted other non-meat tidbits] put her in some sort of hypo-glycemic state that made her feel desperatly hungry all the time.

Tena

mudpuppy

 It's very empowering and mentally beneficial to teach dogs appropriate ways to ask their owners for the things they need like food. And very beneficial and empowering to teach dogs to control their impulses around things they really want.

I totally agree.