Suggestions for Coke ** NILIF people look at pg 5 **

Chuffy

Benedict

Chuffy

Benedict

Dog_ma

Not all breeds come easily to recalls. Etc. etc. I will stand up and admit I am an utter failure as a dog owner because at least 50% of the time, my hard headed ridgeback doesn't quiver when I yell "HEY!" Snort. It must me my fault he's not biddable and doesn't hand on my every wish. Woe.

 

Hey, I am intentionally getting a dog that is bred to be exactly that way.  Yikes.  LOL.  

 

Welcome to the ranks of Miserable Failure Dog Owners.  We're a nice bunch  

 

HA!  Thanks....do I get some kind of badge?  LOL. 

 

Sure.  I'm going to start making them.  Or maybe we could have it in our sig - instead of "ELitist dog owner" I am going to have "Miserable Failure of a Dog Owner... And Proud of It"  I think it could catch on  

I don't find this a joking matter at all.  The COME command has saved my dogs' lives many a time and with fosters going to public events.  The same goes with being able to interrupt a dog's activity.

DPU

No, there is no Catch 22.  From previous post, Coke does not know COME in any situation.  As a matter of fact, I think I read Coke always runs aways when called.  Yes, this should be criticized because there should be no excuse and I don't understand how this could be with trainers and behaviorist involved. 

Coke knows a recall except when he's crazy hyper playing with other dogs.  Then it becomes a game to him ("catch me if you can!";).  Not all dogs learn a perfect recall in a matter of months...

Liesje

I don't think he should be kept back from play and socialization because his recall is not perfect, I think we will need other ways to manage his play in the absence of a perfect recall (the body blocking, drag line, and noise aversions that have been suggested) and continue focusing on developing the recall. 

Yes, socialize all he needs, make sure you keep an eye on all interaction and step in if called for.....you are on the right track........

DPU - it's funny from my perspective, and Dog_ma's, and Chuffy's...because we know that precautions are/must/will be taken when owning one of the more independent breeds.  It's funny because we won't be saying "oh there's my dog running away, haha" but will handle it responsibly....challenging breeds require a sense of humour. 

DPU if you want I can take Coke over to the park, turn him loose, and video tape his recall... but like I said earlier, recall and play dynamics are different things, and I won't assume that just b/c a dog can recall when he's not with a pack of dogs or already on a leash means he will perfectly recall when he's playing with a group of new dogs.

snownose

Interesting, I am sure I read somewhere that Justin was bumped into many times.......yes? And, yes, timing, when it comes to aversive methods is important......your experience should have taught you that.......right?

Of course! And should Liesje use the techniques suggested, she will see improvement. It is ... interesting ... that you are criticizing my methods when they weren't used?

Or was that not a ... criticism ...  but a genuine inquiry? If I didn't know better, I'd say you doubt my experience. Sniff.

Ok, ok. I'm enjoying this way too much and I'm going to get myself in trouble with the moderators if I don't leave it. I need a self  imposed time out.

 Liesje?  Can I make a suggestion?

If Coke views it as a game...approach from a different angle.  Train him to drop into a down on command, from a distance.  When he's playing, and you need him, don't get him to come to you.  Wait until he's not actively wrestling and give the command to do so.  Then go and get him. 

It isn't appropriate in all situations, but in a great many situations this is as effective as a recall and takes away the "chase me" element, if sufficiently proofed in less distracting areas first.  I don't think it's a replacement for a good recall but if Coke thinks recall = playtime I would remove that opportunity totally for long enough (a month or two) that he can forget about it and you can retrain the recall from scratch. 

JMHO. 
 

Liesje

Not all dogs learn a perfect recall in a matter of months...

OMG, months????????  What do you guys do that it takes months or never happens?  For my fosters there is some assemblence there on day 1.  Its an absolute must!

Dog_ma

Or was that not a ... criticism ...  but a genuine inquiry? If I didn't know better, I'd say you doubt my experience. Sniff.

Nope, not at all.....we are just exchanging ideas and experience, right?

Benedict

DPU - it's funny from my perspective, and Dog_ma's, and Chuffy's...because we know that precautions are/must/will be taken when owning one of the more independent breeds.  It's funny because we won't be saying "oh there's my dog running away, haha" but will handle it responsibly....challenging breeds require a sense of humour. 

I can show you a video of Pags in full attack mode toward Lexi.  Pags pinned Lexi and would bite Lexi's head off if she could.  I was able to call off Pags but it was not a pleasant experience and nothing to joke about.  Pags is chow mix and had serious dog aggression issues and she lived in my house with 6 other dogs.  Rather than channeling my frustration with a sense of humor bit, I focused on addressing and resolving the problem.

DPU

Liesje

Not all dogs learn a perfect recall in a matter of months...

OMG, months????????  What do you guys do that it takes months or never happens?  For my fosters there is some assemblence there on day 1.  Its an absolute must!

Wow you have a perfect recall on day one?  Maybe I should just hire you.... 

But I'm not talking about aggression, which is a problem in any dog and needs to be tackled.....I am talking about breeds specifically bred to be independent and who are therefore a challenge to train and not always completely obedient.  I for example am getting a breed that has been looking after sheep without need for a shepherd's guidance for 2000 years - they are capable of logical thought processes and decision making and will sometimes believe that their decision is more logical than yours.  That is not the same things as aggression AT ALL.   

Liesje.....like I said before....get a dragline and a whistle.......use steak or chicken for recall treats........I am telling you, if you use this, you will get results.....don't give up on it........this needs to be done every day......

That would be my secret for a tough recall dog.........

Liesje

DPU

Liesje

Not all dogs learn a perfect recall in a matter of months...

OMG, months????????  What do you guys do that it takes months or never happens?  For my fosters there is some assemblence there on day 1.  Its an absolute must!

 

Wow you have a perfect recall on day one?  Maybe I should just hire you.... 

So "some assemblence" means perfect recall to you?  Look, I know you are young and your experience with owning adult dogs is less than a year.  What this experience person is trying to convey to you is that I have a structured progressive training program in place when new fosters comes into my home.  It took many years to develop.  There are priorities that I establish for training and the dogs do not go on to the next phase until they have mastered the previous.  The dog continues to learn, I am aware of the dog's behavior, and the public is safe.

Benedict

they are capable of logical thought processes and decision making and will sometimes believe that their decision is more logical than yours. 

Eko is a lover. I've never seen him be aggressive to a dog or a person. But he definitely seems to think I'm to be "indulged" at times. Meaning, he clearly thinks my idea is bonkers, but he'll humor me if I insist. He adores me, but he doesn't really think my opinion is better than his, and he doesn't have the kind of neediness that drives a dog to please his owner for the sake of pleasing the owner.

And you hafta have a sense of humor when your dog does!