Suggestions for Coke ** NILIF people look at pg 5 **

snownose

Liesje

Also, I do not believe that any dog has absolutely no issues, no areas of improvement.  We may have to agree to disagree here, but I just I don't think it's possible to have a "perfect" dog.  Kenya's weakness is that she's not cut out for Schutzhund. 

You are right......no dogs are perfect.....but, I really feel that a responsible owner should iron out serious issues with residence dogs before introducing another dog.......why are you so stuck on the Schutzhund deal? My feeling is that if you were so interested in that type of training, why not get a dog that can perform the way you wish from day one? When I rescue, I have no expectations other than a happy and a well rounded animal......if anything above that happens, I am very happy.........example, my newest rescue seems to be a good watch dog.....I am happy......

I was not interested in that type of training originally.  We gave it a try b/c her father was a high scorer in SchH and many of her half-brothers compete and are actual police dogs so we thought it might be something she'd like, but she seems to have way more fun doing agility so that's what we are doing.  We still do SchH style obedience because it is more about rewarding the dog's attitude and confidence and less about exact precision like AKC sports.  I don't care if my dog doesn't have a perfectly precise heel, I'd rather do training that involves motivating the dog and building confidence.  To me, a dog that has confidence and attitude has way more practical value than a dog that can heel like a robot.  Our club focuses on the total aspect of Schutzhund, not bitework and that sort of thing.  SchH encourages a dog to have drive, attitude, and sound temperament.

I would like to try SchH with the new dog, but he will not be from those lines so we probably won't get very far.  For now our club members have plenty of dogs to "share" so you don't have to have your own SchH dog to participate.

Anyway, Kenya is light years ahead of Coke in agility so her training is not really relevant here... 

Again, I'm not seeing what "serious" issues my dogs have that need ironing out... 

Liesje

Again, I am asking you why exactly you believe Coke is undersocialized?  My resident dogs are as settled as settled can be.  Kenya earned six new titles this year, has passed the CGC test three times, passed the TDI, passed the gun shot eval, passed the training and evaluation for west MI therapy dogs, and is predicated to pass the TT next month.  If that's not trained and socialized, please enlighten me.  Both dogs are reliable in the house together alone.  Neither has ever destroyed anything more important than an empty box or an old shoe.  Neither has any separation anxiety.  We've never had a fight or squabble between the two.  If that's not "settled" than what is? 

Congrats on the titles.......

Are your dogs loose all the time when you are at work?

I could have sworn you recently posted that Coke ate the heartworm meds while you were walking Kenya.......so, which is it?

Liesje

Again, I'm not seeing what "serious" issues my dogs have that need ironing out... 

Ok, Liesje, never mind then.........press on with your new dog.....good luck.....

Socialization Training gives the dog is the ability to handle any human or dog or human/dog social situation in a calm manner.  You can take the dog all over with you and expose the dog to different settings but if the dog is not allowed to freely interact in that setting, then the exposure is naught.  One needs to observe the dog in the new setting and then have control over the dog if the behavior becomes unacceptable.  The control of the dog's behavior starts when you first bring the adult adopted dog into your home.  Interrupting an activity is so basic because you can do it for both good and bad behavior.  It is intertwined with your relationship with the dog. 

This is the experience factor that Snownose was talking about.  I bring in new fosters dogs all the time.  Like you, I know nothing of their background other than their most recent experience was bad.  I have very little expectation for the new dog except they be potty trained and I work on the COME comand.  They are free to define their relationship with the other dogs and also free to get acclimated to their new home.  My role is to provide for their basic needs of food, water, exercise, and human-dog relationship building, which by the way never includes playing with the dog.  I work on being able to interrupt behavior.  The fosters do not leave the property until they are nicely integrated with all the activies that occur at home.  For fosters, it could be days, weeks, or even months before we venture into another new setting so I can observe the dog's behavior.  My point is I provide the foster with a structured progessive socialization program.

Lesjie, you must know it is very hard for dogs to sometimes generalize.  They need to be taught proper behavior in new settings and the owner has to be able to interrupt behavior.  This is where I think you failed and you need to start all over.  I don't why Coke reacted the way he did.  I don't know how he interpretted being crated and forced to watch the other dogs have fun.  I don't know what he was thinking when you finally released him out of his misery of being in that crate.  I do know for myself I would have never taken Coke to a fun activity and then allow Coke to sit on the sidelines and watch Kenya have fun.

A dog not responding to COME or HEY is unacceptable behavior.

snownose

Congrats on the titles.......

Are your dogs loose all the time when you are at work?

I could have sworn you recently posted that Coke ate the heartworm meds while you were walking Kenya.......so, which is it?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  DH comes home a lot and we have opposite schedules so just b/c I'm at work doesn't mean they are always crated or that no one else is here.  They are crated from 8am-11:30 then I come home for lunch and we go out to play.  I leave them loose b/c DH comes home from job #1 at 2:30 and then he takes Coke for his walk/jog and then lets them play or whatever until 4pm.  He leaves at 4 but they are still out b/c I get home at 4:30 and we go out again and they can play all evening if they want.  I take Kenya on her walk later in the evening when it cools down.  They are never crated at night.  So, they are crated 4 days a week for 3-4 hours (DH has all Friday morning off).  I could leave them loose the entire time, but b/c we like to take them with us when we travel, they need to stay being used to being crated for a car ride, being crated at dog shows and other events (required), etc.

Yep, Coke ate the entire box of Interceptor while I walked Kenya.  I left it out and then covered it so I forgot it was there but Coke smelled it.  DH already took Coke on a 3 mile walk.  I thought it would poison him so I made him throw it up and called the vet, but they said that stuff is such a low dose he could eat several boxes before getting sick.  We don't always walk the dogs together b/c I believe dogs should get one-on-one attention. 

Liesje

DPU

snownose

you are looking to get another dog when all these other issues are still a thorn in your side........we all have been a novice when it comes to dog ownership.....only years of experience can change that.........

That sounds to me like Lesjie is satifying a human need without taking into consideration the needs of the other residence dogs.  Getting another GSD so the owner can get involved in Schutzhund Training is going to be a recipe for disaster especially if the residence need more time to get properly socialized and trained.   Schutzhund uses a dog aggression in training.  If the residence dogs are not settled, dogs will teach other dogs in their own way and who knows how the aggression part will turn out.

 

DPU, please don't use this thread to make baseless and false comments about Schutzhund and SchH training. I'm not even going to comment on the ridiculousness of those statements.

That is not baseless....you clearly stated that since Kenya would not be a good candidate for Schutzhund training you would be getting a new GSD that would.  If Kenya was a good candidate would you be getting a new dog or have the time for a new dog?

DPU

Liesje

DPU, please don't use this thread to make baseless and false comments about Schutzhund and SchH training. I'm not even going to comment on the ridiculousness of those statements.

That is not baseless....you clearly stated that since Kenya would not be a good candidate for Schutzhund training you would be getting a new GSD that would.  If Kenya was a good candidate would you be getting a new dog or have the time for a new dog?

Hecks yes!  I feel honored to be offered the new dog.  He's not really a SchH candidate either, but you can be in the club and train dogs even if yours don't compete.  My dogs ARE what I spend my time with.  I'm changing JOBS for my dogs.  I am not getting a new dog b/c of Kenya.  She is everything I wanted and more.  Is there some rule I don't know about that people can only handle 2 dogs at a time?

Liesje

Is there some rule I don't know about that people can only handle 2 dogs at a time?

No, there isn't.......but, when a person occupies time trying to figure out how certain problems can be fixed with 2 dogs that have been in ownership less than a year, one must wonder......."I want, I want"

snownose

No, there isn't.......but, when a person occupies time trying to figure out how certain problems can be fixed with 2 dogs that have been in ownership less than a year, one must wonder......."I want, I want"

If my dogs were different ages (like if they were both young, both were old, or both very close in age), no WAY would I consider getting another. 

snownose

Liesje

Is there some rule I don't know about that people can only handle 2 dogs at a time?

No, there isn't.......but, when a person occupies time trying to figure out how certain problems can be fixed with 2 dogs that have been in ownership less than a year, one must wonder......."I want, I want"

Yes there is!  The owner's mentality changes from individual dog's needs to the pack's needs.  Geez!  That is why it is so important when creating a pack, the individual dog's issues are taken of before another dog is introduced.

Liesje

snownose

No, there isn't.......but, when a person occupies time trying to figure out how certain problems can be fixed with 2 dogs that have been in ownership less than a year, one must wonder......."I want, I want"

 

If my dogs were different ages (like if they were both young, both were old, or both very close in age), no WAY would I consider getting another. 

Thank you so much, you just made my point of defending your reason.......

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DPU

Yes there is!  The owner's mentality changes from individual dog's needs to the pack's needs.  Geez!  That is why it is so important when creating a pack, the individual dog's issues are taken of before another dog is introduced.

OK, well Kenya's "issues" have been sorted out and we have over 4 months to get Coke to not pull on his leash at agility class (which I don't consider a big "issue" to begin with, just something I asked for suggestions from other people who've been through agility with a young dog that wants to play play play).  If he continues to bully Justin, he will not play with Justin, period.  There will be no "issue" because I simply won't allow bullying.

Liesje, you were entertaining the idea of getting another playmate for Coke so he could learn his lesson.......if that doesn't cry out for leadership, I don't know what does....."You", yes, you are responsible for making sure things run right with your two dogs.....right?

Liesje

If he continues to bully Justin, he will not play with Justin, period.  There will be no "issue" because I simply won't allow bullying.

Liesje, I hope you don't feel that you are being baited.  I just don't agree with your solution to just not allow Coke to play with Justin and then that solves the bullying issue.  The problem still exist and it will happen again in the future with another dog, possible Kenya or the new dog.  I see that if it is not properly addressed, the problem will escalate.