NILF Help!

 I found the site I was looking for (www.k9deb.com)!  I read the section about social isolation and "king of the castle syndrome" and it's unfortunately ringing a few bells (I've been giving negative attention by pushing her away when she gets pushy - and sometimes I just walk away and leave the room so bad on me for mixed signals). 

Someone wish us luck b/c I think we will have to do the ignoring for 48 hours and then work up to giving attention on our terms. 

Also, we are taking her to the vet tommorrow for runny stools.  We've been giving her rice for a few days now to no avail so a trip to the vet is in order (outside of runny stools she is still energetic eating ok)
 

If I hadn't found NILIF I'm not sure we could of kept Willow for long.  I almost gave her up twice when we got her due to her aggressive behavior.  I still remember the night before the rescue was going to pick her up.  I couldn't sleep I felt so bad.  I hunted and hunted for answers on the interent and found that.  I decided to cancel the rescue and try it and it worked.  It is still something we use all the time. 

Same for us. I'd never heard of it before, but out of desperation, I started searching for anything I thought would help. I too had contacted a rescue group about Sassy. I didn't want to give her up, but I was feeling hopeless. Using NILIF turned things around for us/Sassy and I continue to use it every day with her.  This is one of many articles that I found helpful:

http://www.flyingdogpress.com/attitude.html

Willow and Cakana I am so happy for the both of you.  And Cakana thank you for that link, very helpful!  Ari is definatley not aggressive (I'd be surprised if an 11-week old could be aggressive) but she is very very very pushy (understatement).  She wants what she wants when she wants it, and that simply will no longer fly (aka we will be very clear to stop sending mixed messages!).

Again, thank you both - your success stories are encouraging and what the SO and I both need right now.  We're both tired and run down due to having our sleep interrupted to take her out (she is actually quite good in her crate now *when we are home and in the room with her*, whines for maybe a minute and then settles down for the night).  I do not know how she is when we leave her alone, but I do know she's either anxious or annoyed b/c she can no longer have her crate pad in there (she digs it up) or a blanket over the crate (she pulled it off and chewed on it).  She had 2 different chewies in there (no stuffed animals - too afraid she'd shred it and eat it unsupervised) but apparently the blanket was better *shakes head*.

I know with consistent signals and expectations for us she is going to be a PHENOMENAL dog.
 

It may not seem like it right now, but you have a huge advantage over people like Lori and me. Sassy was already a 2 yr old lab that weighed 70 lbs when we got her. When you have a dog that big with attitude, it can be really frustrating and even frightening. She's a dream now and I'm so glad we didn't rehome her, but she can still be pushy, so I find that using NILIF helps her (and me) remember who's top dog

 Cakana I really am happy for you, Lori and Sassy!  And yes I am very grateful Ari is only 11 weeks and 19 pounds...if her behaviors were in the body of a full grown flat coated retriever, I think it would be downright frightening for all parties involved. 

I think Ari will always be pushy, but hearing from people like you and Willow's Mom makes me feel NILF is the way to go hands down.  It's new to me and the SO (I was taught old school dog training methods which I absolutely despise and looking back on them make me sick to my stomach that I bought into it and used them - I was in high school at the time).  I don't want THAT type of training in my house, b/c it's not a partnership, and some of the "corrections" are downright cruel. 
 

***I should clarify that not all of what I learned was cruel, but some techniques I really feel are and I respect differing opinions! 

We still go back to NILIF all the time -- when something gets out of control, back we go to doggie bootcamp! 

Some simple cautions:

1.  Be very careful not to get in each other's 'thing'.  If he told Ari to do something BUTT OUT.  Avert your eyes. Don't look at Ari, don't look at SO.  Cover your eyes.  Bury your face in your hands -- I don't care if you're cracking up or mad as heck.  SO needs to do the same.  If one of you gives a command, let them finish it.  don't give up and let the other 'do it'. 

2.  KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid -- MY acronym!)  Just because you got her to walk calmly by you tonight -- don't expect her to remember it tomorrow.  She's a baby.  She won't.  she had fun and you gave her food tonight! RAH!! 

Most of the time it may be enough to just get her to 'sit' and pause while you give the affection, food or whatever.  That 'sit' needs to be as rock solid as breathing.  When any lesson gets too frustrated back off to 'sit'.  Always end it 'winning'.  Always end it with something she CAN do and not be frustrated. 

3.  The look at me game is AWESOME.  She 'sit's in front of you and you have one Cheerio in each hand.  You say "Ari" and she looks at you and food goes in her mouth.  Look away.  Then say "Ari" and she looks at you and you give her a mega 'You're SUCH a good girl" ruffle the neck, chest rub and HUGE MEGA SMILE.  Look away.  Say "Ari" and she looks at you (good things are happening when she looks!!) and shove the other Cheerio in her mouth. 

Play that game BOTH of you.  From far away and near.  When she's far and looks at you pump the air, scream "YOU ROCK ARI!!!! WHOOO HOOOO" and be 'happy' all over your body.

You set up all sorts of positive reinforcement with that.  It is THE best game because her name becomes ***attention*** in the best possible way!!

I used the social isolation technique with Cassidy, and it was like magic! It was really hard to completely ignore her for 2 days, but I did  - she was the invisible dog. I love Suzanne Clothier's website too, the flyingdogpress link that was posted. I went to a weekend seminar of Suzanne's and she is an amazing trainer. 

just remember that NILIF is about a lot more than food- it's about EVERYTHING the dog might want. A pushy puppy should be on very strict NILIF and not be allowed anything unless they comply with your wishes first. And also keep in mind it's a free choice for the dog- if the dog doesn't want to comply, that's fine, that's the dog's choice, he just doesn't get what he wanted. It's not about compulsion, it's about getting the dog to want to work with you and establishing lines of communication.

I agree with the above. As you use it more and more the actual act they want like for you to open the door or put a leash on is the reward and not food--at least here.

And, what Callie is describing above teaching watch me is great but that's not NILIF technique.  This should be done with a command the dog already knows and does to get something else. 

Yup agree!  She does not get the leash on till she sits and she needs to be in a sit and released with an OK let's go out before we leave the door.  We no longer giver her attention when she demands it, but rather when we initiate and even then I ask for a sit first before I will give her some skritches :)  My SO does the above as well.  

We ignore her bratty behavior entirely - several times we have had to remove ourselves because while ignoring she got very obnoxious and bit certain sensitive parts of our anatomy so we left the room for a couple of minutes and when we came back in still ignored her till she had settled and we were ready to initiate the attention. 

She must also sit for her food before the bowl will go down on the mat. 

We are expecting her obnoxious behavior to get worse before it gets better, but thus far the SO and I are breathing easier and Ari is responding well so far (until her puppy brain kicks back in lol!)
 

the_gopher

 I found the site I was looking for (www.k9deb.com)!  I read the section about social isolation and "king of the castle syndrome" and it's unfortunately ringing a few bells (I've been giving negative attention by pushing her away when she gets pushy - and sometimes I just walk away and leave the room so bad on me for mixed signals). 

There is nothing wrong with walking away.  You don't have to be physical to make your point or have your dog respect you, in fact gettiing physical is less preferable.  Walking away is better.  Pushing away can be confused for a play-initiating behaviour.  It can often lead to the dog retaliating, meaning you need to push again, harder.  By walking away, you instantaneously seize control of the situation and you make it go the way YOU wnat it to go. 

Chuffy what would you recommend when walking away means she just latches on and the only way I can get her to stop is to leave the room...and then when I return anywhere between 5 minutes to an hour one night...she just goes back to doing it a short time later?  OR as my SO has observed when I leave the room she'll just grab a toy and self amuse and look none the worse for the wear.  

We have begun isolating her in the kitchen, we are still nearby (we have an open floor plan) so she can see/hear/smell us but she cannot get near us (she's given chew toys in the kitchen).  When we let her out she's much more subdued.  I dont' know if it is the "right" thing to do, but it seems to be the only thing working right now.