Prong collars

Actually, if I were going to recommend a trainer to inform someone about prongs, it wouldn't be Leerburg, it would be Suzanne Clothier.  I try not to use or advocate prongs, but compared to choke collars they are certainly more humane.  At least they release when the dog stops pulling, unlike a choke, which often simply tightens until the handler can regain some slack in the leash.  I wouldn't melt them down, I'd get a magic wand and convert them to Gentle Leaders complete with training video & I'd hope that people would have the patience and dedication that you do toward seeing that they don't unknowingly injure their dogs or break the cooperative bond between them and their dogs.

I'm going to try something.
I'm going to try changing Ella's collar from her prong collar to her martingale collar for walks.
Then I'm going to start by simply walking her around the block like that.
I'm also going to try carrying treats with me so I can try to get her to focus on me in case she gets distracted. But that's going to be rough because, man, she sees a squirrel and she can move FAST.

I want to get rid of her prong and stop using it. I'm not sure that I can do that right now, but we'll see after I start taking her to training on Thursday. It's just so much easier when I'm walking her to get her to not pull when I use a prong collar. I don't even have to pop the prong to get her to walk next to me and not pull. But in a regular collar, she won't stop pulling once she decides to pull and then she chokes and hacks and heaves.

I saw the prong as my last resort with Thor....the Easy Walk Harness wasn't around then and the GL didn't work with him.  And I did try everything before I went to the prong.
 
If I recall, Leerburg recommends placing the prong high up on the neck...where it maximizes pain.  I don't agree with that at all.
 
NOW I've learned to get good leash manners by STARTING with a dragline, but when Thor was younger and so danged headstrong and STRONG, I felt that I had no other options other than just not ever walking him.  He literally could drag me down the road and I could NOT hold him back.  Something about those daily walks turned him into a bull.
 
Certainly learn how to use a prong properly before using one, but lets not start eliminating all the options so that folks are left only with those horrid choke chains.

I put "choke chains" in the same box as prong collars.  I don't like them.  The name alone is a misnomer, because the dog should never choke, if he does you're doing it wrong.  I'm so glad things like that are not in vogue over here any more.  The days of Barbara Woodhouse are long gone!

I feel that chokers are far worse than a prong.  They are exceedingly easy to misuse and often are.
 
Chewy....I weaned Thor from his prong.  I started with two leads and kept the prong lead on my pinkie finger unless he started to pull.  I don't do corrections with a prong, but a bit of tightening was enough.  Gradually, we just put the prong on with no lead, and eventually we were able to remove it entirely.  Took a long time for him to be willing to walk nicely without his "jewelry" tho.....

ORIGINAL: glenmar

I feel that chokers are far worse than a prong. They are exceedingly easy to misuse and often are.

Chewy....I weaned Thor from his prong. I started with two leads and kept the prong lead on my pinkie finger unless he started to pull. I don't do corrections with a prong, but a bit of tightening was enough. Gradually, we just put the prong on with no lead, and eventually we were able to remove it entirely. Took a long time for him to be willing to walk nicely without his "jewelry" tho.....

My problem with Ella is, pit bulls have an unusual HIGH pain tolerance. She'd walk with a regular collar on and have NO problems allowing herself to choke, hack, or heave. Sometimes, if excited (for whatever reason), she'll pull even on her prong. If I DO have to correct while walking with her prong, it usually only takes a very light correction. And I do believe with that it's a reminder. There is a difference in a "reminder" correction on a prong and harsher, firmer "pop" on the prong collar. I mean, there is when I use it with Ella, anyway. Does that make sense?
But, yes, I would totally love to phase out the prong collar. I'll try the two lead thing. I never thought about that before.

Yet another good reason to avoid R- with this type of dog.  (To clarify R- = Negative reinforcement = something which is nice when it stops happening). 

My personal feeling is that it is best not to make blanket statements or to criticise someone until you have been in their situation....walked a mile or two in their shoes.

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

Actually, if I were going to recommend a trainer to inform someone about prongs, it wouldn't be Leerburg, it would be Suzanne Clothier.  I try not to use or advocate prongs, but compared to choke collars they are certainly more humane.  At least they release when the dog stops pulling, unlike a choke, which often simply tightens until the handler can regain some slack in the leash.  I wouldn't melt them down, I'd get a magic wand and convert them to Gentle Leaders complete with training video & I'd hope that people would have the patience and dedication that you do toward seeing that they don't unknowingly injure their dogs or break the cooperative bond between them and their dogs.

Thanks Anne, I'm so not a Leerburg fan.  The gentlest approach possible is always my plan as well.  And with prongs, even though they look archaic and somewhat sadistic, in the hands of a professional trainer they can be a very useful tool.

I use what is best for the dog at the time, luckily, I have never had to use a prong collar...........

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

Yet another good reason to avoid R- with this type of dog. (To clarify R- = Negative reinforcement = something which is nice when it stops happening).

Have you ever worked with a pit bull before? You sound like a trainer, so I'm going to assume that you probably have. If you have or you even own one, then forgive me for repeating stuff you already know.
I have walked dogs that weigh over 100 lbs. I have walked GSD/collie mixes that were not only big but also VERY hyper. Ella has a strength to her that I have NEVER felt in ANY other dog that I've ever had the pleasure of being around. She has a tenacity that pit bulls are KNOWN for. She sees something she wants, she won't just rush to get it, but she rushes hard and heavily AND fast. When I first brought her home, she jumped and put her paw on my lap and I thought her paw was going to go through my leg because she pawed me with such strength.

I am going to learn a new way of handling my dog. I'm hoping the trainer/behavior consultant that I take her to next week will help me learn ways to get her to focus on me ALL THE TIME and not on some small, furry thing 3 yards away that may or may not bark. I hope she will teach me ways to get her to not pay so much attention to the world around her, and more on me and the task at hand.

If you can give me a suggetion to get my dog to never pull me down the road or where she wants, that I can use today and it'll allow me to toss out the prong to never rely on it again, I'll do it.

Respectfully,  the terms may be confusing to some...
 
Clarification:  reinforcement results in the increase in the likelihood a behavior will occur again.  Negative reinforcement occurs when an aversive stimulus is removed.  So, it the prong is tight (aversive) the dog moves toward the handler, aversive is removed; dog is negatively reinforced.  Versus, dog is walking calmly, sees squirrel, darts quickly at squirrel, prong tightens, darting stops, dog was punished.  Punishment is the introduction of an aversive that stops a behavior and impacts (by lowering) the probability of the behavior happening again under the same or simliar situations.

Chewbacca, I just wanted to suggest something that I've found to be very very useful, as I have two dogs that seemingly only have one drive: prey drive, and I live in a squirrel heavy area.

I try to be more interesting than the squirrels.  I'll carry treats, squeakers, sometimes I'll even have a whistle that I'll carry in my mouth.  BEFORE they see the squirrel, rabbit, cat, other dog, bird, leaf blowing in the wind, fox, chipmunk or other "prey" I'll do whatever I can to get the dogs to focus on me.  Yep I'm known as an idiot to most of my neighbors, but it helps me to control my two without the use of prong collars. 

If I can walk my 950 pound horse on a halter, perhaps you can walk a Pit Bull on a Gentle Leader. []  With any dog this strong, I would run a second strap to his regular collar, just for safety, but the GL puts all the leverage with you.  Pits are sometimes too strong for the Easy Walk Harness.