Encountering strangers on walks - goes from friendly to aggressive?

Being small, perhaps he feels worried when people loom over him?  Maybe try picking him up at first to meet people that way, rather than have them come down over him

You want to avoid correcting him (saying "no" and jerking him away) while he is giving warning signals like growling and snapping.  It sounds wrong to allow and ignore these things, but if you correct these things, he will stop doing them and go straight for a real bite instead.  It sounds like he is uncomfortable with the way people lean over him and pet him.  My German Shepherd had this problem as well.  Basically, when she met new people I'd ask them not to pet her, just to let her approach them, sniff them, then I'd say "ok come along!" in a cheerful voice and give her a pat or a treat.  I made the initial greetings very short so that she could get close and sniff, but didn't leave enough time for the person to do something that made the dog uncomfortable.  Everything was initiated by the dog.  If the approaching person gave off a vibe like they were going to be too forceful with petting her, then I would step out of the way and practice a sit-stay or cross the street.  Now, if I decide to actually stop and let people pet her, I kneel down myself and keep a hand on her face because she likes that.  In our pet therapy class they said that if someone else is petting your dog, you should be touching your dog too.  If she starts to get the slightest bit of concern on her face, I saw "ok time to go!" and off we go.  I don't wait for it to escalate to a more fearful response.  You might also want to join a socialization class.  Some strangers just don't have a clue and will pet your dog aggressively even if you ask them not to.  It can do more damage than good, but we can't expect strangers to always know better or comply with what we ask.  In a socialization class, you'll have an experienced trainer overseeing everything and people who are willing to participate and do what is asked in order to help the dogs.

Liesje

but if you correct these things, he will stop doing them and go straight for a real bite instead.

Wrong, when you correct the dog knows your are correcting the behavior, not only the sound he is producing because of it, example:

Dog is aggressive towards other dogs and barks at them, you apply correction and the dog thinks " being aggressive is not allowed", the dog does NOT think "Barking is not allowed so i wont, but i will continue being aggressive"

I apply corrections and i have never come across with something like you say, as far as i understand you dont work with corrections, so thats why is easy to have misinformation about them and its understandable to bring non accurate statements 

One thing is to speak out of experience and another totally different is to assume things without having the actual experience of doing it first, its important to let the OP know that not every statement said its an accurate one

espencer

Wrong, when you correct the dog knows your are correcting the behavior, not only the sound he is producing because of it,

Wrong!!! Espence, why would you say something like that when you know how strongly debated that point is?  I know you've never come across problems using your methods, but other people have, so don't forget that there's not necessarily a "right" point of view, or a "wrong" one for that matter, lol.

espencer

One thing is to speak out of experience and another totally different is to assume things without having the actual experience of doing it first, its important to let the OP know that not every statement said its an accurate one

That is very true! So let me share my experiences with my dog, who is also a small dog, who had the exact same problems you are describing.

My dog was about 3 when I got him. I had grown up with dogs, but had never done any serious study into dogs or dog care, so honestly I knew pretty much nothing about "real" dog training. My dog had been spoiled rotten as a pup, and then because of situations beyond my control he had to be moved several times and put into very intimidating, unfamiliar situations. Nervous dog, inexperienced handler, bad news!!

My dog "likes" strangers, but when they go to pet him, he "freaks out" and will growl and snap. Especially if it's someone we're meeting out on walks. Forgive me if I sound preachy or pushy, but I've had a LOT of trouble with my little guy, and I'm hoping I can spare you the trouble/pain/stress of the mistakes I made with him along the way.

First off: I highly highly recommend reading Deborah Wood's Little Dogs: Training your Pint-Sized Companion. (http://www.amazon.com/Little-Dogs-Training-Pint-Sized-Companion/dp/0793805376) and Turid Rugaas' Calming Signals (http://www.amazon.com/Talking-Terms-Dogs-Calming-Signals/dp/1929242360/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201617685&sr=1-1). Both of these books really helped us a lot, and they're both pretty cheap. I really, really, really recommend them.

Secondly: what to do when he growls. This is what has worked for me and my dog, in what sounds like the same situations, and is what we were advised to do by the professional dog trainer we hired for an individual consultation.So while "not every statement" you will read is "true," this is what we have found, by experience, to be the best approach in this situation.

The MOST important thing is to not put the dog in a situation where he feels like he needs to growl - right now, this sounds like not meeting strangers while on walks (strangers are notoriously bad at following your directions and usually do stupid things to scare timid dogs, particularly when your dog is small and cute and the person "likes dogs.";) When the dog does growl, the person being growled at needs to freeze. By doing so, you are telling the dog that you are nothing to be afraid of and that you will not hurt him, but also that his growling is unacceptable and you're not going to back down. After holding that position for a couple of seconds, until the dog relaxes a little bit, the growl-ee needs to back off and stop doing whatever it was that got him growled at in the first place.

In my experience, it is of vital importance to not back off or "correct" the dog. By correcting the dog, you are telling him that whatever he was afraid of really is scary, and that bad things happen in this scary situation, so he really needs to defend himself. By backing off and not doing anything, you are telling the dog that if he growls, he can get his way, so he should growl more often. And worst of all, by ignoring the growl entirely, you are putting yourself in a situation where you might get bitten.

With my dog I first tried the "leave him alone when he's growling" method and then he escalated to snapping in the air whenever he didn't want to bother with someone annoying him. Then we tried the "correct him when he's growling/snapping" method and yes, he stopped growling so much, but instead went straight to growling mid-air while he lunged to bite people. A couple of times he broke the skin, quite significantly. I then hired the trainer to come and help us, and using the "freezing" method, he's not bitten anybody in a very long time and has only snapped a couple of times in the last few months (it used to happen on a daily basis).

The most important thing is to not put the dog in a situation where he might want to growl, because every time he does so he is self-reinforcing the behavior. It's like he's practicing it, and you have to be super careful to make sure he doesn't learn that it "works."

To avoid this turning into too much of an epic I'll split my response into 2 posts, heh.

 

its important to let the OP know that not every statement said its an accurate one

um, yeah, ignore everything in the previous post, highly inaccurate. Dead wrong in fact. Never correct the "growl" out of a dog. Here are some very helpful articles about aggression, and on-lead aggression

http://www.flyingdogpress.com/artlibreg.htm

espencer

Liesje

but if you correct these things, he will stop doing them and go straight for a real bite instead.

 

Wrong, when you correct the dog knows your are correcting the behavior, not only the sound he is producing because of it, example:

Dog is aggressive towards other dogs and barks at them, you apply correction and the dog thinks " being aggressive is not allowed", the dog does NOT think "Barking is not allowed so i wont, but i will continue being aggressive"

I apply corrections and i have never come across with something like you say, as far as i understand you dont work with corrections, so thats why is easy to have misinformation about them and its understandable to bring non accurate statements 

One thing is to speak out of experience and another totally different is to assume things without having the actual experience of doing it first, its important to let the OP know that not every statement said its an accurate one

LOL, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to this, but I will for the OP's sake.  First of all, you don't know me and don't know what techniques I use in every situation or what type of experience I have.  Second, every trainer and behaviorist I have ever worked with has told us it's a bad idea to correct warnings that are a normal part of dog communication.  Would you slap a child for showing fear if a big man came up and yelled in the kid's face?  Third, "being aggressive" is not the same as giving warning signals.  The OP's dog is not aggressive, it's just giving warnings that it doesn't like certain things people are doing to it.  Fourth, what I think is wrong is to correct the dog for trying to communicate and then ignore the root of the problem.   The long term solution is observing what exactly makes the dog fearful and overcoming that, not correcting all of the warning signals out of the dog.  Fifth, I have plenty of experience with this.  I volunteer at a shelter where most of the dogs have some issue with certain ways people move.  Most of them have been beaten or neglected.  My own dog was extremely wary and distrusting of strangers and strange dogs and often gives a wide variety of warning signals when she is uncomfortable or feels threatened.  I have worked on this exact same problem every day in my own home for the past six months.

I typed out a long post about how to deal with the "encountering strangers on walks" part... but I'm not seeing it here... maybe it got eaten by forum monsters. If so, and if your eyeballs aren't bleeding from all my blathering earlier and you'd like to hear what worked for me and my dog, let me know.  

We also have the same problem (and unfortunately, it is with a close to 50 lb. dog)...  Wesley will look like the friendliest dog out there, he will approach a person, in a happy manner and then, if the person pays attention by leaning towards him, bending over or even looking at him and extending a hand towards him, he will growl and snap at the person.

Here is how we handle this issue (per the advice of our trainer who we work with regularly):

First - it is our job to protect Wesley from being put in that situation.  He is fine so long as the stranger does not make any attempt to engage him at close range, so we do not let him approach strangers and we do not let strangers pet or move too close to him.  We do a lot of attention work and obedience work within close proimity to people - without letting them or Wes get too close. 

Second - if something should happen and a person doesn't follow our instructions and Wes growls or snaps at someone - we redirect, give a command he knows that takes him and the person out of harm's way and then reward for the right behavior.  We do not "correct" a warning, we appreciate that Wesley is trying to tell us he is uncomfortable, but, at the same time, I would much rather he show his discomfort by backing away and coming to sit by me/looking to me for guidance.  So - we do not yell or jerk his leash when he growls or snaps, but we will for example give an "eh" or some other interupting noise, get his attention with his name and tell him to sit and look at me.  The key is to interupt the behavior you don't want and replace it with the one you do.  Easier said than done, I know, but keep at it and we are proof that it can work... 

By rewarding the behaviors we want (ie - attention to us, coming when called under all kinds of circumstances, and generally looking to us for guidance when unsure) we increase the likelihood that those behaviors will be repeated.  By redirecting from behaviors we do not want, and not allowing those behaviors to be rewarded (in other words, I try to minimize the "successes" that Wes has with unwanted behaviors - for example, where he growls and the person backs away) we decrease the frequency of those behaviors.  Eventually, the rewarded behavior will come to replace the unrewarded behavior.  It is really hard to not "reward" the growl or snap because if growled or snapped at, most people will back up right away, teaching the dog that those behaviors work - so it is really important to try not to put your dog in a situation where this might happen... 

Acknowledging that this is not a perfect world and that we may never be all the way there, I will say that this has worked beautifully for us and as a result we can do a lot more with our dog.  Building our bond with him has also helped tremendously because it gives him the confidence to look to us in more situations, rather than making the decision to take matters into his own paws... 

I would be happy to share more with you on working with a dog like this - we have gotten a ton of professional help and advice along the way...

 Thanks for all the thoughtful replies, it does seem like he does better when people take it very slow and let him sniff them out first. The man yesterday went down pretty quickly to give him pats because Jasper seemed excited to see him (I should have warned him). Also seems to happen when someone is reaching down to pat him. I've had him in my arms and had people stroke his face and while he doesn't seem enthused (more like confused actually), he hasn't show any growling or snapping (maybe he feels more comfortable with my touch while being petted by a stranger as Liesje said). I've been having friends and family that come over give him treats so that he will hopefully learn that new people are a source of good things. He usually barks at them when they enter for 2 minutes or so and then becomes extremely clingy to me, like all over me while they're there (insecure, scared, trying to claim me?).

I will check out those books Cita, I've heard a lot about the calming signals one and I think it's at the library. I'd appreciate learning what worked for you and your dog if you don't mind typing it again (I actually just had to retype this message because I accidently closed the window-arrghhh dontcha hate it?), thanks!

Schleide, the redirecting idea sounds really good, I’ve been trying to get him to do commands outside the past few days. Jasper will sit and lay inside with no problem, but outside when there are a million things to sniff it gets a lot harder. Also to have him pay attention to me when I call him outside..It’s so much easier inside, I guess I just need to practice it a lot more..I’ve been using a clicker and treats to reward any command he obeys while outside.

The idea when you redirect is to make sure you redirect to a behavior the dog will not have a hard time doing (it should be non-stressful)...  So, keep working on the obedience outside, trying to add distractions as slowly as possible...  If he won't pay attention to you, try better treats or try reducing the distractions a little until he is able to focus on you again - then you can add distractions slowly until you will be able to have him respond in all different types of distracting situations. 

Liesje

I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to this, but I will for the OP's sake.  First of all, you don't know me and don't know what techniques I use in every situation or what type of experience I have.  Second, every trainer and behaviorist I have ever worked with has told us it's a bad idea to correct warnings that are a normal part of dog communication.  Would you slap a child for showing fear if a big man came up and yelled in the kid's face?  Third, "being aggressive" is not the same as giving warning signals.  The OP's dog is not aggressive, it's just giving warnings that it doesn't like certain things people are doing to it.  Fourth, what I think is wrong is to correct the dog for trying to communicate and then ignore the root of the problem.   The long term solution is observing what exactly makes the dog fearful and overcoming that, not correcting all of the warning signals out of the dog.  Fifth, I have plenty of experience with this.  I volunteer at a shelter where most of the dogs have some issue with certain ways people move.  Most of them have been beaten or neglected.  My own dog was extremely wary and distrusting of strangers and strange dogs and often gives a wide variety of warning signals when she is uncomfortable or feels threatened.  I have worked on this exact same problem every day in my own home for the past six months.

Again:

espencer

as far as i understand you dont work with corrections, so thats why is easy to have misinformation about them and its understandable to bring non accurate statements

And i never said that you should correct and forget about the root of the problem

Anyways, i'm not interested on spending another twenty-something pages talking about this, my post is just to let know the original poster that not everything said on the forum is the right information

Schleide's response is pretty much exactly what worked for Rascal and me! Keep him out of scary situations, redirect his behavior/attention when you think he might start acting inappropriately, and make sure he only interacts with reliable people.

When I have guests over at my house, the rule has become simply "don't pet the dog - he'll bite you" not because he necessarily would (but he might), but because people can be really bad at following directions, and if they're petting him inappropriately and my back is turned, things could get ugly. So unless I'm there, sitting next to them, also touching the dog, I've found it's safer just to ask them not to touch him at all.

Really, it's almost eerie, I didn't know all of the work Schleide had done on aggression problems, with Rascal I was just following advice from books and from a private trainer. The method came from different sources and worked extremely well with 2 different dogs. Even if it's "wrong" (lol) it sure seems to be a good endorsement.

I still definitely recommend a dog training class or a private instructor, though. It's great for peace of mind and can actually be a lot of fun! 

Liesje

You want to avoid correcting him (saying "no" and jerking him away) while he is giving warning signals like growling and snapping.  It sounds wrong to allow and ignore these things, but if you correct these things, he will stop doing them and go straight for a real bite instead.  It sounds like he is uncomfortable with the way people lean over him and pet him.  My German Shepherd had this problem as well.  Basically, when she met new people I'd ask them not to pet her, just to let her approach them, sniff them, then I'd say "ok come along!" in a cheerful voice and give her a pat or a treat.  I made the initial greetings very short so that she could get close and sniff, but didn't leave enough time for the person to do something that made the dog uncomfortable.  Everything was initiated by the dog.  If the approaching person gave off a vibe like they were going to be too forceful with petting her, then I would step out of the way and practice a sit-stay or cross the street.  Now, if I decide to actually stop and let people pet her, I kneel down myself and keep a hand on her face because she likes that.  In our pet therapy class they said that if someone else is petting your dog, you should be touching your dog too.  If she starts to get the slightest bit of concern on her face, I saw "ok time to go!" and off we go.  I don't wait for it to escalate to a more fearful response.  You might also want to join a socialization class.  Some strangers just don't have a clue and will pet your dog aggressively even if you ask them not to.  It can do more damage than good, but we can't expect strangers to always know better or comply with what we ask.  In a socialization class, you'll have an experienced trainer overseeing everything and people who are willing to participate and do what is asked in order to help the dogs.

Great advice, including the part about not correcting the growling.  You do not want to remove your dog's "early warning system".  I would also urge you to grab a copy of "Click to Calm".  The techniques are designed for aggressive dogs, but work very well for the fearful, leash reactive dogs, too.  The book is in a step by step format and teaches basic skills and conditioning exercises.  You can get it at dogwise.com.  

If your dog was not extremely well socialized with other pups, and a series of new and different people, when she was between 8-16 weeks of age, you have lost the optimum socialization period, and your dog may always be leery of new situations.  But, the training outlined in the book can help you make this much better, and reduce your dog's anxiety.  She will have more faith that you can protect her if she understands a few simple commands, and can look to you for guidance in stressful situations.  Resist the temptation to soothe her while she is scared.  Do tell her quietly that she is a good girl if she approaches a stranger to take a sniff.  Let her go to them, no one should invade her personal space, stare at her, or lean over her at this point in the process.  Good luck!

spiritdogs

Great advice, including the part about not correcting the growling.  You do not want to remove your dog's "early warning system".

I apply corrections and i have never come across with something like you say, as far as i understand you dont work with corrections either, so thats why its easy to have misinformation about them and its understandable to bring non accurate statements, therefore i dont blame you for not to be accurate on how corrections work