How much attention and training is too much?

I spend about 1/2 an hour a day training Ben, he's on the park 1 - 2 hours a day, the rest of the time I'll engage him in play or cuddling every hour or so for 5 or 10 minutes.  (I work from home.)  He has a "set" half hour in the evenings that I could set my watch by when he wants us on the floor to play with him, which we do.  We'll also have a 15-30 minute session of snuggling and belly rubs in the early afternoon, and again before I head to bed. 

The rest of the time is "down time", when Ben will sleep or just chill out while I work or do things around the house.  It must be said that usually his favourite place for this is on my feet, so he is touching me for large parts of the day even if I am occupied with something else.

No idea if this is "too much" or "too little" according to someone else's definition, but it's a balance and routine that works well in our house, and Ben is happy with it.  If I am moving around too much while he's at my feet sleeping, he'll frequently give me a disgusted look and go find somewhere quieter to snooze.   

My dogs get a lot of down time and time to themselves. I usually take them out for about 2 hours a day. I don't really have a separate time that I train them. Any training is done pretty much in real time. If they need to learn something new, I may spend 5 minutes for a few days reminding them of it, but then it becomes part of the routine, so again, no separate training time.

In this household, when I start to do something, dogs gather, hoping what I'm doing is going to involve them. So I think they're getting enough down time. Maybe "too much".

On attention: I interact with the dogs A LOT.  So, the amount of attention I give is probably pretty high. I'm with them all the time except when I go to the store or out somewhere maybe once or twice a week.

tssst

Dogs need a certain amount of time to themselves (not counting sleep) where they can just relax without interruption. They seem to recognize this need between themselves.

If I may ask, what qualfies this as a need and just exactly where did this come from?  In my house, socialization is all the time even in sleep.  They are always together or at least with one of the other dogs.  A dog can relax without interruption and still have other dogs around doing the same thing. 

"If I am moving around too much while he's at my feet sleeping, he'll frequently give me a disgusted look and go find somewhere quieter to snooze."

Hi Benedict, A few of my dogs like to just grunt when they wish to be left alone. It's neat when you can understand many of their tonalities and link them to what they (seem) to want.

That is cool, tssst...unfortunately my dog is not particularly vocal, unless someone knocks on my door in which case he'll alarm bark (and then be quiet at my request.)  He's not really one to make any kind of noise beyond a bark or the occasional sigh as he's falling asleep.   

My dogs down time is while I'm at work. They also get a bone to chew at night before bed to unwind after playing, training, etc.

Too much training? I think that you can burn out a dog, sure. I do a lot of training though because I have working dogs. My dogs like to think. They need jobs so I do a lot of free shaping and putting them through their paces to work their minds. They enjoy it. I do recognize the signs when they've had enough though - sniffing, licking, scratching, etc. I try to quit before we get to that point.

I do training in pretty short bursts, so maybe 15 minutes a day for working on new stuff. Old stuff is on an "as-needed" basis. Our classes are an hour long and I notice that Marlowe starts to peter out around the 40 minute mark (and the one we just finished didn't even begin until 8:15 PM, which is way past his bed time). Other than that, it's all "down time" as far as formal training is concerned. My routine when I get home from work is 10-15 minutes hard play outside in the yard (longer when it's a different time of year and it's not already dark when I get home), 10-15 training (one actively trains while the other practices down-stay--it's hard work for both), then a 25-30 minute walk. After that, it's dinner and snuggles all around until bed time. Rinse, repeat.

I'm actually going to give Marlowe a rest from classes for the next couple months. We will still practice, but I'm going to be enrolling Conrad in a Feisty Fido class in March and I just can't do two classes for two dogs at one time. It makes my head spin just thinking about it. I know people with multi-dogs do that all the time, but I like to just sort of concentrate on one thing at a time. So Marlowe will be getting a break from classes while Conrad has his time in the sun and I think it'll be good for all of us.

 My dogs like training because I make it fun, as well as a learning experience.  It's just part of every day, a few minutes here or there.  They love to "train mom" to click LOL.  Funny, I just taught Sequoyah to "back" on Sunday, and just in time.  She's wearing a cone because of a nasty infection on her little bum, which she would turn into a bigger problem left to her own devices.  This morning, she got stuck with the cone on and really looked like she couldn't get out from the tight space she had gotten into.  I cue'd her to back, she did, and you should have seen the look on her little speckled mug.  I do think she actually thought about how powerful I must be to have taught her that so that she could extricate herself.  Maybe not, but made me feel like my training helped her this time, instead of just helping my ego LOL.

Kayla (Pomeranian) gets very frustraited if we train too much. I'll usually do it 10mins at a time for a 1/2hr a day.

I don't think she could ever get sick of me... When she sees me she acts like I left for CHINA for a year! lol Its insane... cute and I love it but crazyness...

Weekends + sick days I have been there all day and night. She'll sit on my lap or next to me the WHOLE time! She'll bring her bone or toy up on the couch next to me and chew it. If I move she's got that "wait wait where u going... can i come?" look on her face. Yes she even watches me go the bathroom [I expect it, she's a Pom!]

At night she used to sleep at the foot of our bed. I thought this was a way of her needing space... nope guess not because now she sleeps RIGHT next to us like a "human" in the bed!!!

All though its an extreme amount of attention... idk I really like it :o) She's deff my kind of dog...

My Sheltie on the other hand deff needed her space. Sometimes she'd really want to be with you and play but she'd have moments where if you walked up to her she'd get up and move across the house and lay down. Haha that's a "i need my space" statement for sure.

It's the same way in my house.  Little bits here, little bits there.  And my dogs do love to learn new things as well.  They react to learning itself, not just my reaction to them learning.

I too watch for signs that my dogs want some down time and life is NEVER so structured that they can't have it when they need it.

I guess that the reason that I posted this topic is that most everywhere I look in this section of these boards, everyone seems to be talking about training for this, training using food as motivators, training using clicker markers, etc. It seems to go on and on and I sometimes wonder if all of this training is just what people here like to talk about because training gives them something to talk about (and do with their own dogs.) Or whether it may be an obsession with some people. I don't know. Then I started thinking about how dogs just like to relax and not be bothered with what humans want them to do.

 I made a comment on another topic that I'm a minimalist and what I meant by that is what active training that I do teach my dogs is just the very basics such as "come" or "get down." I do not care if my dogs learn to sit because I'm actually fine if they either sit and wait, stand and wait, or lay down while waiting. Either one they choose is fine with me. But I do like them to know the "come" command because I walk with my dogs off leash extensively. I also will actively train them not to race around the house (zoomies per glenmar terminology or) jump up on people because, well, most visitors don't want that unless it is by invitation to do so.... but anyway, just the basics in terms of active training. Oh, I will also often teach my dogs to play with certain toys such as frisbees, tug ropes, and all of this stuff just comes naturally anyways, at least from my experience by simple exposure just as housebreaking a puppy does.

But that's not the end of training. I'd say that with my own pack of dogs, most of what they learn is through assimilation and I'll just refer to this as passive training. When it comes to puppies, I've found that they learn most of their behavior from the older dogs we have as well as following my own behavior that I project. The older dogs, in turn, have learned passively from our even older dogs we had before them who are no longer with us. I think this has a lot to do with instinct and emotions we project (aka Natural Dog Training???) but at any rate, as far as my own dogs go, the formal training is rather short lived while the passive training is always present through the entire life of the dogs.

 Two of the key terms I'm using here is active and passive. I'm pretty sure I am in the minority here but is there anyone else who relates to this simplistic style of living with dogs? I must admit that when I started lurking on some of these dog message boards a few years ago, that I started to buy some of these high-tech gadgets and became interested in books as well. But I have returned to my original rural instincts and dropped all of this stuff as unessessary baggage. But that's just me.

p.s. I hope this answers some of your unanswered questions from the other topic, Ron.

I don't think you are the only one that thinks that way "tssst"

I just think its FUN to train and teach Kayla things. But when people do start to talk about new techniques and tools it starts to overwhelm me a little like "woah she's just a dog... its all good..." But I think roll over, dance, high-five stuff like that for my small dog is fun! It was also fun to teach my Sheltie "Meeko" the difference between objects like a ball, stick, frizbee, etc... not because our family was "obsessed" with training... it was just really fun/pleasant to have a smart dog.

I do believe in your passive method a little... "Kayla" my Pom used to beg ALL THE TIME! It just wouldn't stop! When we went to visit my mom in Florida (where "Meeko" is) I swear Meeko taught her not to beg! Meeko KNOWS you do NOT beg... so when Kayla would walk up to us at the table Meek would bark and growl!! Kayla would walk over to Meeko, lay down in front of her looking at her, then they would lay there almost "telepathically talking"! haha

After Meeko did that three times now when we say "Kayla no begging" she'll go in the other room and lay down! OR turn her head!! ITS CRAZY! we didn't even teach her that!! MEEKO did... I find stuff like that amazing when dogs learn from other dogs

tssst

But that's not the end of training. I'd say that with my own pack of dogs, most of what they learn is through assimilation and I'll just refer to this as passive training. When it comes to puppies, I've found that they learn most of their behavior from the older dogs we have as well as following my own behavior that I project. The older dogs, in turn, have learned passively from our even older dogs we had before them who are no longer with us. I think this has a lot to do with instinct and emotions we project (aka Natural Dog Training???) but at any rate, as far as my own dogs go, the formal training is rather short lived while the passive training is always present through the entire life of the dogs.

 Two of the key terms I'm using here is active and passive. I'm pretty sure I am in the minority here but is there anyone else who relates to this simplistic style of living with dogs? I must admit that when I started lurking on some of these dog message boards a few years ago, that I started to buy some of these high-tech gadgets and became interested in books as well. But I have returned to my original rural instincts and dropped all of this stuff as unessessary baggage. But that's just me.

Yep, I always say here that there is a beginning to training and there is an end and then life experiences take over.  I usually get berated with responses that training never stops and dogs need to continually learn and be mentally challenged.  Isn't that life?

I bring in multiple shelter dogs into my home.  I am successful in rehabbing and then rehoming these dogs because my core pack is Great Danes and they are the true foster parents.  Shelter dogs assimilate very well with this pack and carry what they have learned to their new adoptive homes.  I am there to provide for their needs and to place limits on extreme behaviors.  Pretty simple setup with very simple defined roles for everyone.

Be it active or passive, I don't really believe that training ever should stop.  If WE don't use our brains and continue to grow and learn, our brains start to stagnate.  I see nothing wrong with helping our dogs continue to grow and learn.

Sometimes training just happens.  It isn't planned but an opportunity arises and its fun for all involved.  A few weeks ago Theo was hanging out in the kitchen with me while I was baking bread, and on a lark I taught him to open the fridge for me.  He thought it was great fun and is now the only one in the house with paws who "opens the fridge" for Mom.