Praise/affection

mudpuppy

someone actually did a study, I'm vague on the details, and the "click" of the clicker directly stimulated areas of the brain involved in emotion and memory, whereas the verbal marker had to be processed in the frontal lobes. Other people have studied dogs in training and report that on average dogs learned 50% faster if taught with clicker than with a verbal marker.  It's  not body language, it's something about the precise sharp sound.

Yeah, in a race between clicker sound and verbal, yes....but this is irrelavent if the dog has already received the acknowledgement through the 5 senses and in some people, the 6th sense.

DPU

the dog has already received the acknowledgement through the 5 senses and in some people, the 6th sense.

I love you, man! Without the 6th sense, I might very well have to depend on the other 5.  

DPU

I am not buying this "precision" timing that makes the 'clicker sound' indispensable for training a dog with the +R -P method (but I also believe +P is involved). 

And we shall disagree but this is a thread where someone asked for help. And I would suggest that if she can't make much sense of either my approach or yours, she should seek out a trainer or behaviorist in her area for at least one consultation. There are plenty of other threads where the debate rages on.

Checking the APDT site would be a good place to start.

ron2

DPU

I am not buying this "precision" timing that makes the 'clicker sound' indispensable for training a dog with the +R -P method (but I also believe +P is involved). 

 

And we shall disagree but this is a thread where someone asked for help. And I would suggest that if she can't make much sense of either my approach or yours, she should seek out a trainer or behaviorist in her area for at least one consultation. There are plenty of other threads where the debate rages on.

Checking the APDT site would be a good place to start.

What are you talking about?  The OP asked if there was a line between Praise and Affection.  Both are tangible and praise is more closer to physical.

DPU

ron2

DPU

I am not buying this "precision" timing that makes the 'clicker sound' indispensable for training a dog with the +R -P method (but I also believe +P is involved). 

 

And we shall disagree but this is a thread where someone asked for help. And I would suggest that if she can't make much sense of either my approach or yours, she should seek out a trainer or behaviorist in her area for at least one consultation. There are plenty of other threads where the debate rages on.

Checking the APDT site would be a good place to start.

What are you talking about?  The OP asked if there was a line between Praise and Affection.  Both are tangible and praise is more closer to physical.

I started the thread to get a discussion started, not about clicker training or +R or +P.  It was basically that I see praise as affection mostly because, like another poster said, everytime I interact with my dog, I am showing affection.

GoldenAC

It was basically that I see praise as affection mostly because, like another poster said, everytime I interact with my dog, I am showing affection.

Then you are correct, praise is a form of affection and affection is ever present in your relationship with your dog and also used as the first acknowledgement of when a dog has done something you like.  You show your feelings with praise but the dog already *knows*.

spiritdogs

I can identify with dogs choosing their favorite motivators.

so far the strongest motivator I have found for Hektor was a decapitated slightly decayed coyote head. He expressed more sheer joy with that one object than anything I have ever given as a treat or toy. To bad there is no way for me to use that, the stench was unbearable and it took a few baths to get rid of it.  I have no idea what happened to the rest of the coyote.

DPU

What are you talking about?

You are totally logical in asking that. I got corn - fused between this topic and another. I apologize. I meant that reply for the "Why does she do this?" thread. Obviously, we can all recommend seeking professional help. Carry on ...

I don't understand your logic- presumably in your scenario the dog somehow "picks up" that he did right regardless of which training method you are using; so then how come dogs trained with clickers learn dramatically faster than dogs trained without clickers?  if you were correct, that the dog mysteriously knows he did right before the noise of the clicker hits his brain it wouldn't make a difference. But it clearly does.

Muddpuppy, you really baffle me because of all you profess to know about the dog.  Yet you do not have an understanding of relationships, bonds, and how affection can be an influence in training.  I am not saying that the bond and affection do not exist in your relationship with your dogs, just that you do not understand them, and in fact by your posting, you dismiss their role.  When you talk about Leadership, Dominance, and Alpha...it is clear if you had an understanding of affection, then your definitions would change.  But there is hope because you did transition from extreme harsh treatments of your dogs to the more mechanical somewhat gentle approach of Clicker Training.  When the understanding of affection's role sets in you will come into the new age of dog training and finally achieve something very close to pure positive training.

For what it is worth, I agree with you that the clicker sound is faster than the verbal cue and I believe that was the point of you mentioning the study that was qualfied because of your memory.

Yet you do not have an understanding of relationships, bonds, and how affection can be an influence in training.

ok, so educate me. Explain in great detail how I go about turning my "loves food" "you better not touch me when I'm working" dog into a dog who will value affection above all else.

mudpuppy

Yet you do not have an understanding of relationships, bonds, and how affection can be an influence in training.

ok, so educate me. Explain in great detail how I go about turning my "loves food" "you better not touch me when I'm working" dog into a dog who will value affection above all else.

Well, you must know me by now that I have a communication issue.  I practice, don't teach.  Those that don't practice, teach.

ron2

DPU

What are you talking about?

You are totally logical in asking that. I got corn - fused between this topic and another. I apologize. I meant that reply for the "Why does she do this?" thread. Obviously, we can all recommend seeking professional help. Carry on ...

 

I probably could use some professional help, but luckily in the dog training sphere, I am getting it in agility training (though it is mostly getting to remember which obstacle is next).