Fear of the oven

I don't have a Visla (isn't that what Rupert is?) but my dog did have a fear of the smoke alarm. I think, but I'm not sure that Visla's are generally more easily spooked than some other dogs, is that right? With Jaia, I had to let the smoke alarm ring (ANNOYING!!!) for a while and play and dance and throw treats around until he got kind of used to it. I did that 4 or 5 times and it doesn't faze him now.

Sounds like Rupert's real fear is of the smoke alarm. And when it goes off, if you get tense and hurry to get it turned off, that probably reinforces his fear. (If mom and dad are scared of it, it must be pretty dangerous!) That's about all I can offer you. I wouldn't let the fear develop any further. In other words, I'd probably expose him as much as possible to the dreaded oven.

Don't try to sneak and turn the stove on. Wait till you are offering a bone or something delicious and have Rupie join you at the stove. As you're giving it to him, pause and turn on the stove. If he leaves, stand there and call him back to gt his goodie. I'd be turning on that stove in his presence 30 times a day. The more times he witnesses nothing bad happening, the more likely he'll overcome the fear.

Disclaimer: I may not know what the heck I'm talking about but this has worked for me! LOL  

 If it were me, I'd let him get as far away from the oven as he needs to in order to feel comfy enough to take a treat from you.  Then, I would make sure that the treat he gets whenever the oven is "on" is the very most wonderful thing, like roast beef or liverwurst, even if you have to start feeding him in the living room and moving closer and closer to the kitchen each time. 

Thanks. Yes, Rupert is a vizsla. And I think they are more sensitive than other breeds.

When the smoke alarm goes off, DH and I don't panic, I'll just stand under it fanning it with a magazine. Usually we're laughing, and I'll say something like, "Wow Rupert! Daddy's burning the house down again! Wheeee!" And try to make it funny and exciting, like we're having a good time. He will not play or take treats while this is going on.

I'll have to try going into a different room and giving him treats.

I'll also try to give him a treat and turn on the stove, but I know in the past he leaves and will not eat the treat, and will not come when called when the oven is on.

I think the answer is take out.  I'm only kind of kidding.  Isis is afraid of loud noise and I've tried many things with no luck also.  Like Rupert, she is not interested in food or toys 'cause she's too scared.   The only thing that has lessened the intensity of her fear over time is that we completely ignore her when she's frightened and step up our 'happiness' level a notch. Perhaps it's just been time that's lessened it a bit, finding out that nothing horrible has happened.   Unforunately, turning on the oven happens a lot more than a thunderstorm.  I hope someone has more proactive advice.

 Not read replies so sorry if I repeat anything already covered....

I don't think letting him hide is all that bad actually.  But I think you should teach him another way to cope so that he doesn't HAVE to hide and overcome the fear that way.  I'm a bit funny about spiders and I can tell you that "flooding" me would NOT help.  I'd just start to resent the person doing the flooding. 

Make the area around the oven (not too close, obv!) a happy place.  Start with the oven cold.  Move his food bowl there if you can.  Do some "mat training" and teach him to lay on this mat to eat special goodies and move the mat closer to the oven area. Or, if he has a crate and views it as a special, favourite place, do that with his crate.  In the meantime, move him away from the area BEFORE you switch it on so the feelings of fear don't start.  Take him somewhere pleasant and safe and give him a yummy Kong or something.  Do your best to keep it clean so it doesn;t smell/set off the alarm, again (I think it is the alarm that bothers him and he knows that the smell=noise and that you switching the oven on etc. mean that the noise might start soon.)

Avoiding stressing him out as much as possible for a while.  Let the stress hormones in his body dissipate so he is less twitchy, less likely to respond fearfully to the oven and easier to work with.

I think you should get a "Sounds Scary" CD or something along those lines and work with to prevent/treat noise phobia in general.  Being noise-shy is something that is known to spread so that its not just confined to the one noise or one area anymore, so that would be a good idea to work on.  But always keep the noise level LOW so he is definately within his comfort zone.  Yes, turn the volume up gradually... but keep it really slow.  Play it at meal times or just prior to walks or while playing his favourite game.

Work up to letting him see you switch the oven on and off and reward him with lots of quiet praise and whatever he likes best for staying calm, gradually leaving it on for longer time periods.

That's just what I would do  

twelvepaws

Like Rupert, she is not interested in food or toys 'cause she's too scared.  

A dog is not going to let his guard down to eat or play if he is frightened   "Pro-active" is a great word; to me that means working while he is NOT scared to help him be able to cope when he IS.  When he is its a bit too late.... being scared is not conducive to learning.  WHy do you think its taking me so long to learn to drive???  

Does your oven do the TICK TICK TICK when it kicks on? That sound IS quite off putting...I could see him not liking it. If so I'd record that sound and play it at other times even outside and see if I couldn't get him used to it. Might even leave it on at low volume ALL THE TIME.

It makes a quiet "hiss" sound when the gas turns on, then a "whoop" when the flames ignite. The bottom of the oven is warped, and when it heats up, sometimes it makes a bang noise from the metal bending. If that makes sense.

When it happens I just ignore it and keep doing whatever I was doing.

The stove-top does the "tick tick tick" thing, but that doesn't bother him. 

I wonder if we still have a tape recorder... maybe I can do the video record thing with my digital camera and export the sound. 

Thanks for your suggestions, everyone. 

I talked to our trainer, and she said to not let him hide or find a "safe place," he has to deal with it. So now I close the bedroom door and block off the stairs to the lower level (he tried hiding in the office down there). He'll stay in the living room and curl up on the couch, or on the floor between the coffee table and couch. But he just sits there and shivers. I do not comfort him anymore (I did at first, before I knew that was bad).

this is REALLY bad advice- this is the "flooding" approach to curing fears, and unfortunately it usually backfires and makes the dog even more afraid- think of how a claustrophic would react if you locked him a coffin, probably totally freak out and get even more claustrophobic. The only real way to get a dog over a fear is called gradual desensitization and try to get the dog to associate the scary thing with pleasantness- which may be difficult for you since I assume you need to use your stove on a regular basis. Although preventing smoke episodes would probably help a lot right there- got oven cleaner?

is there some burning reason why you need him to not-be-afraid of the stove? some fears are very reasonable. One of my dogs was standing right next to me when our oven caught on fire with a big roaring whoosh, flames up the wall to the ceiling, and not unreasonably we were both scared out of our wits. This was four years ago. For two years every time we started messing with the stove she'd quietly go hide upstairs and we'd simply ignore the behavior- I was afraid that if I followed her up and gave her treats or attention it would be rewarding the fear-behavior. Then for another year she'd just keep a cautious eye on it and only go hide if she actually smelled smoke. And now she seems fine with it. I have to admit I was kind of jumpy about using the oven for some time after the incident, can only imagine how she felt.

janobonano

It makes a quiet "hiss" sound when the gas turns on, then a "whoop" when the flames ignite. The bottom of the oven is warped, and when it heats up, sometimes it makes a bang noise from the metal bending.

That kinda scares ME!

mudpuppy

is there some burning reason why you need him to not-be-afraid of the stove?

LOL

mudpuppy

some fears are very reasonable.

I think it's going to take some form of exposure, be it flooding or desensitization, to get this boy to come around. I like the ideas here. I hope you are successful.

Fearful Dog 

I'm wondering whether it might be good for Rupert to be given some kind of "go to bed" command before the oven is turned on, where his bed (or mat or crate or pilow or whatever) is in some other part of the house, far enough away from the oven that he's not having a huge fear response to it. I'm thinking that perhaps if he's given something to do, not only will it perhaps keep the fear response from really ramping up, but it will also put him in a state where he's ready to receive a reward and he's being rewarded not for acting fearful but for just going somewhere safe and relaxing.

I definitely wouldn't flood him though, that just sounds like bad news for a sensitive soul like Rupert. 

mudpuppy

is there some burning reason why you need him to not-be-afraid of the stove?

It's just that he looks so terrified. His whole body shivers. It's like he shuts down, he won't eat, won't play, won't listen to commands, etc. He doesn't have this reaction to anything else.

His treat jar is kept on the counter right next to the oven. When the oven is not on, he's fine being in the kitchen. Sometimes (yes he has me trained well) he'll go and sit in front of the oven and stare longingly up at his treats.

I am so sorry to hear that Rupie is so afraid - and I don't have a lot to say as I am not an expert.  Dare I say it there was a CM show with this same thing, and he did a desensitization thing and the dog got better - slowly - and not 100% but much better.  It is sad to see any dog really afraid and I think that would drive me to work on it.

Wish I could say something really clever but I can't.  Perhaps when he is staring longingly at the oven you could turn it on and then treat if he is still there. Or may be start by pretending to turn it on and if he stays give him a treat.  Open the oven, put pans in, etc all with it off and treat him for not running away. 

I do hope it gets better soon as I said I hate to see a cool pup like Rupert stressed  

Chuffy

I'm a bit funny about spiders and I can tell you that "flooding" me would NOT help.  I'd just start to resent the person doing the flooding. 

Have you tried it? Flooding might help, have him on a leash and turn on the oven (if some poeple think that her dog might bite her because is not able to scape then tie the leash to something) the dog might flip out from 20 seconds to 5 minutes but after that he will realize he is still there with no injuries, he might look at YOU to see how you react to it, if he sees that you dont give too much importance to the oven he will start to follow your example

Psychologist Alice Clearman explains why flooding even in humans works so well:

"Flooding is all about reinforcement in the brain. Whenever we engage in an habitual behavior in response to something we fear, we reinforce that fear. If we are afraid of spiders and back away from them, we reinforce that fear. Imagine a great fear of spiders. You see one in your bedroom, you run out of there and get someone else to kill it, or spray pesticide in your room or call the pest control company. I have known one person who refused to sleep in her bedroom for 3 months after seeing a spider there!

The way it works is that they become more and more anxious as they approach the feared object or situation. In the case of spiders, if i'm afraid of them and i have to kill one, i become more and more afraid as i approach it. Maybe i have a shoe in my hand, poised to smash the creature. My heart is pounding, my pulse is racing, i'm almost hyperventilating, im terrified! i get closer and closer, sweating and i suddenly decide that i cant handle it! i turn away and run out of the room, calling the neighbor to come and kill the spider. The moment i run away how am i feeling? Relieved! My pulse slows and my breathing returns to normal. I wipe my brow with a shaking hand "whew that was close"

Look at what i did to my brain, i had increasing anxiety as i drew closer and closer to the spider. Then i decided i could not do it and i fled the scene  having an enormous sense of relief. That relief, that feeling, was a reward. I rewarded myself for fleeing from the spider, I have taught myself, quite literally my brain, that spiders are indeed very dangerous creatures, i know this because of the feeling of relief i had when i left. The result is that i actually increased my fear. I have made myself a little bit more afraid of spider every time i exit"

The difference between dogs an humans when it comes to phobias says Dr Clearman is that humans attach thought, imagination, memory and anticipation of their fears. Dogs do not do these things; they live in the moment, giving them a huge advantage over us in overcoming fears and phobias

Dr Clearman says that the treatment for spider phobias is to have the client having a spider on his skin until he is no longer afraid. The fearful person starts by talking to a therapist who can asses the degree of fear but the treatment is always the same, It can be done in short stints over a longer period of time or just in one session. Flooding has been used by psychologists for about 30 years. Dr Clearman explains that the mountains of research that have been done on it continue to prove that its very, very effective

When a dog overcomes his phobia himself they become self empowered, increasing their self esteem and affecting other areas of their lifes as they feel stronger, more comfortable and happier

Remember, this is the opinion of a Psychologist, not just any regular guy who just "assumes" what is going to happen