Fear of the oven

I'm wondering whether it might be good for Rupert to be given some kind of "go to bed" command before the oven is turned on, where his bed (or mat or crate or pilow or whatever) is in some other part of the house, far enough away from the oven that he's not having a huge fear response to it.

I like this idea. Part of his fear seems to be being startled by the sudden outburst of noise, correct?

I don't care what a handful of psychologists say about flooding; I think it's a really bad idea and suspect it very rarely if ever works. Perhaps with minor fears and certain personality types.

 I would use a variation of flooding. I do have a Vizsla and they are pretty sensitive. I would feed him in the kitchen for a few weeks (without turning the stove on) and then I would leash him and put some comfy pillows in the kitchen and he and I would sit in the kitchen with the stove on eating hotdogs until he was relaxed. He might freak for a few minutes. I would have him in the down and relaxed position on the pillows eating hotdogs and ask someone else to turn the stove on.

 If you do this you have to succeed. You cannot allow him to exit as this will make your fear problem worse. That is the risk you take if you use any type of flooding. Know your dog and if in doubt do not use any flooding method.

 Mind you in the long run if the fear of the stove is not causing any other issues you can always ignore it and hope he will get over it in the end. I have used a variation of flooding with Gunnar, my Vizsla but it was in reference to fear of loud noises, caused by fireworks and since he is a hunting dog it was important that this fear not cause him to be gun shy which would in effect ruin him as a hunting dog. It worked and he is fine with gunshots although he still does not care much for fireworks.

mudpuppy

I like this idea. Part of his fear seems to be being startled by the sudden outburst of noise, correct?

The hiss and whoop are actually pretty quiet. It's the gas turning on and the flame igniting. He can probably hear it, though. The boom is only occasionally, and about 5 minutes after it starts up. I think he smells the gas, too.

Thanks for your suggestions everyone. 

Kayjin used to be petrified of the oven, when we first got him.  When we would turn it on he would run upstairs and hide in the bedroom.  My FI would always coddle him during this time, which I think made it worse.  I think Kayjin kind of thought, well if Daddy is hugging and gushing over me there MUST be something really scary going on.

I too think that Kayjin's fear was connected to the fire alarm that goes off occasionally.  He hears the scary noise and then Mommy and Daddy jump up and frantically start flailing and waving things in the air.  So to Kayjin I think he linked a WHOLE bunch a badness together, Oven=Fire alarm= Mommy and Daddy acting like psychos.... poor Kayjin!

 We started sending him to bed (his bed in the living room) before turning the oven on.   FI stopped coddling him,  Just a quick "its ok Cage" .  Once he was on his bed... a safe place he would get treats.  The bed is not too far from the kitchen, we have an open floorplan so the bed in the living room, is basically right next to the kitchen.   After he became comfortable with going to his bed while the oven was on. I would make sure I always had tasty high value yummies in the kitchen ready if he wanted to check things out.  I let him do this on his own.  Slowly he would follow his brother in the kitchen to check out what Snuffa was munching on. 

Now he comes into the kitchen on his own while I'm cooking.  We have a big over sized chair in the kitchen... this is where he usually sits now.  Its far enough away from the oven, but close enough that he can make sure he is not missing out on any good treats!

He still doesn't LOVE the oven... but he doesn't think its going to eat him anymore either!

espencer

Chuffy

I'm a bit funny about spiders and I can tell you that "flooding" me would NOT help.  I'd just start to resent the person doing the flooding. 

 

Have you tried it? Flooding might help, have him on a leash and turn on the oven (if some poeple think that her dog might bite her because is not able to scape then tie the leash to something) the dog might flip out from 20 seconds to 5 minutes but after that he will realize he is still there with no injuries, he might look at YOU to see how you react to it, if he sees that you dont give too much importance to the oven he will start to follow your example

That just sounds terribly, terribly cruel to me.  I'm sorry, I can't countenance doing it.  My niece is also scared of spiders.  Perhaps if we tie her to a chair and let spiders crawl all over and just ignore her screaming and struggling it will lessen her fear when she finally realises the things aren't hurting her....?  How can you tell when the "subject" has REALLY stopped being scared and when they have just given up because they can't get away? 

So say it works and they finally master their fear and feel good about it.... That's like you have to reach a wall and break through it and you've got to be a wrecking ball to do that.  Can someone who loves them bring themselves to do that to them?  

Allowing them to master the fear themselves, slowly and gaining self confidence all the way, with desensitiasation seems like a much more comfortable method to me.  Perhaps this method might work on individuals that were a little tougher, if the care-giver is comfrotable with it, but no WAY would I try "flooding" with a particularly sensitive animal.  IMO Rupert is not a candidate for this technique.

Not only would desensitising for noise in general be less stressful, it would cover all the bases, so, for example, when you have a baby crying in the house, he's going to be better equipped to deal with that. Just forcing him to master his fear quickly in this one area won't help him for other things he may be shy about.  The "slower" option kills more than one bird with one stone.

Chuffy

That just sounds terribly, terribly cruel to me.  I'm sorry, I can't countenance doing it.  My niece is also scared of spiders.  Perhaps if we tie her to a chair and let spiders crawl all over and just ignore her screaming and struggling it will lessen her fear when she finally realises the things aren't hurting her....?  How can you tell when the "subject" has REALLY stopped being scared and when they have just given up because they can't get away? 

Thank you, you just prove my and Dr Clearman's point: The difference between dogs and humans when it comes to phobias says Dr Clearman is that humans attach thought, imagination, memory and anticipation of their fears

I could not ask for a better example  

espencer

Chuffy

That just sounds terribly, terribly cruel to me.  I'm sorry, I can't countenance doing it.  My niece is also scared of spiders.  Perhaps if we tie her to a chair and let spiders crawl all over and just ignore her screaming and struggling it will lessen her fear when she finally realises the things aren't hurting her....?  How can you tell when the "subject" has REALLY stopped being scared and when they have just given up because they can't get away? 

 

Thank you, you just prove my and Dr Clearman's point: The difference between dogs and humans when it comes to phobias says Dr Clearman is that humans attach thought, imagination, memory and anticipation of their fears

I could not ask for a better example  

Which part are you referring to - the question over when the dog has truly mastered his fear, not just "given up"?  Or the fact that, due to MY feelings, I won't deliberately allow this to happen to an animal or child in my care? 

Never mind, this will just end up way OT.  I can't seriously think the OP is going to do this to her dog.  Rupert is a blatant non-candidate for this technique so continuing a discussion about flooding here seems pretty pointless and there's plenty on it in the Chatter thread.

So, I'm out of this thread.  I hope it goes well with Rupert.  I have no other ideas you could try that I haven't suggested already. Good luck, will you keep us posted?

how on earth do we know that dogs DON'T attach thoughts, emotion, memories, and anticipation to their fears?  my oven-fearful dog was certainly attaching a memory to the oven- memory of roaring terrifying flames; she certainly attached an emotion, fear, to the oven; she anticipated fear by quietly getting far away whenever it looked like we might turn on the oven; and she exhibited thoughts about the fear, carefully planning her escape route and hiding place.

I would sit in the kitchen with the stove on eating hotdogs until he was relaxed. He might freak for a few minutes. I would have him in the down and relaxed position on the pillows eating hotdogs and ask someone else to turn the stove on.

I can assure you that a dog with a serious fear of the oven would not be able to either remain in a down or be able to eat hot dogs in such a scenario; she would be trying to claw her way through the door, willing to cause serious damage to her own body or to others around her in her efforts to get away, and would only appear "relaxed" after collapsing from exhaustion.

mudpuppy

I can assure you that a dog with a serious fear of the oven would not be able to either remain in a down or be able to eat hot dogs in such a scenario; she would be trying to claw her way through the door, willing to cause serious damage to her own body or to others around her in her efforts to get away, and would only appear "relaxed" after collapsing from exhaustion.

yeh whatever mudpuppy

mudpuppy

I can assure you that a dog with a serious fear of the oven would not be able to either remain in a down or be able to eat hot dogs in such a scenario; she would be trying to claw her way through the door, willing to cause serious damage to her own body or to others around her in her efforts to get away, and would only appear "relaxed" after collapsing from exhaustion.

Thank you for proving my and Dr Clearman's point once again: The difference between dogs and humans when it comes to phobias says Dr Clearman is that humans attach thought, imagination, memory and anticipation of their fears

As for the topic,

Try keeping the doggie treats in the oven.  This way everytime you go to the oven he is getting something good.

luvmyswissy

Try keeping the doggie treats in the oven.  This way everytime you go to the oven he is getting something good.

Excellent idea! In fact, I would put a few in there and turn the oven on... Or bake chicken liver treats! They will stink up your house, but he'll love you for it! And might change his idea about the oven! LOL  

luvmyswissy

As for the topic,

 

Try keeping the doggie treats in the oven.  This way everytime you go to the oven he is getting something good.

Brilliant, my dear Watson. 

luvmyswissy

Try keeping the doggie treats in the oven

I like it! You could make something really, really yummy and good smelling to help him associate the oven with good things. =]

luvmyswissy

Try keeping the doggie treats in the oven.  This way everytime you go to the oven he is getting something good.

That's a great idea! I'm going to have to stick a note on the oven though, so that we remember to take them out before pre-heating!

Thank you! 

FourIsCompany

Excellent idea! In fact, I would put a few in there and turn the oven on... Or bake chicken liver treats! They will stink up your house, but he'll love you for it! And might change his idea about the oven! LOL  

Mmm. Now those sound yummy!   I'm sure Rupert would love them, though. I'll have to give it a try.

mudpuppy

I can assure you that a dog with a serious fear of the oven would not be able to either remain in a down or be able to eat hot dogs in such a scenario; she would be trying to claw her way through the door, willing to cause serious damage to her own body or to others around her in her efforts to get away, and would only appear "relaxed" after collapsing from exhaustion.

I appreciate everyone's suggestions. I didn't mean for this thread to be a debate about flooding. I just said that it was an option that didn't seem to be working for us.