How do you build respect?

I think respect is a pretty abstract concept for a dog to be feeling. I think it kind of implies a system of morality that dogs don't really have. I guess I've used the term before as a shorthand for "the dogs know that I am safe and rewarding to be around and pay attention to." But I don't think they are capable of respect in the same way that I respect my parents or my teachers.  

the word "respect" gives me bad vibes. Most of the people I've known who go around talking about getting their dog "to respect" them actually mean "getting the dog to obey them out of fear" by punishment and intimidation. The yank n spank trainers I've watched talk a lot about getting the dog to respect you; the clicker trainers I've watched, never mention the word. Even the ecollar "sitmeans sit" franchise doesn't use the concept.

I'm sure others use this word differently, but it has been spoiled for me. I don't use it or think about the concept. 

Re. what mudpuppy just said, perhaps it is better to think of your own behaviors as being respectful.  The meaning then would not be misconstrued as a way to beat down a creature into submission so that he is afraid of you and behaves only so as to avoid the stern connotation of the term "respect".

A respectful manner of teaching and working with a dog would be considering what your dog needs and how he can learn it best, less the hard a&& mentality.

You could look at it how a dog will listen to one person but not the other. Maybe one particular person is consistent with commands and behaviors where the other person is wishy washy. So the dog doesn't think that it has to listen to the wishy washy person - so people consider this a lack of respect.

The person who sets up consistent rules, expectations, etc. will have a dog who listens to it most if not all of the time.

Underdog_19

I've been reading around and a common theme of respect keeps coming up.  I find this interesting.  What are some ways that you guys go about building respect with your dogs?

 Respect and trust are pretty easy to gain with a dog.  Consistency and fairness play into that completely.  Routine is yet another element that plays into both.

Consistency with respect to boundaries and rules.

Fairness with respect to enforcing those rules.

Routine helps a dog know what to expect and when it's to be expected.  We might think it's boring to eat at 6pm every night, but to a dog, that's a time he/she looks forward to.

JMO
 

I find it interesting because when you think about it, how do you know what your dog's definition of respect is?

I've been reading Millan's new book and got to the part about how Marley (from book Marley and Me) didn't respect John Grogan, that's the reason why Marley did crazy things.  Millan points out that when Grogan needed Marley to be good (went through training, etc), Marley responded and there were less problems.  When that ended, Marley went back to being himself.

I think that using that info, not perhaps Millan's thinking, and also incorporating Xerxes ideas, respect to a dog is leadership, routine, training.  That to me makes more sense.

To the anti-Millan people, please don't think that I'm going straight by him; I use him more as another source of info. I firmly believe the more info you have, the greater advantage you are in.  I've found that my guy responds best to a mix of Millan (leadership, routine) and +R (training).  Perhaps I'm getting a little philosophical but...   

Leadership, fairness,and consistancy build respect. Respect has nothing to do with fear.

 I believe it was Fouriscompany that had a post the other day about eating dinner with her DH and the dogs milling around the room, her DH was telling them, go here, do this and all was confusion and she stood up and pointed and said "go to your beds" and they all went. To me that denotes respect. Her dogs listen to her.

 I build respect by showing my dogs what is required, and by expecting and demanding (and no, demand does not mean yank and crank)that they always perform in that manner. For instance if I direct a dog to go to his bed and lie down, I will never do this and allow him not to do as asked.I think being consistant is key. Make sure the dog understands the command and then follow through each and every time the command is given.

 My DH is similar sometimes to Four's. He is not a natural "dog person" but over the years he has learned, he will still on occasion speak to the dogs as if they were the children and have a "conversation" so to speak, asking them to "go lay down, no, get off, come on guys get in your beds (laugh), guys, hey guys you are not listening, I asked you to get in your beds". And all I have to do is say HEY!, In your beds and point and they go. He babbles and does not follow through therefore he loses respect, but they know that when I ask them to go to their beds, I will take them there and place them in a down if they fail to respond to the request.

To me the term respect in the dog training world means the working relationship you have with a dog.  It means different things with different dogs.  With my Mal it means if I correct you, you are not allowed to bite me, LOL.  Well, you would have to understand working Mals to understand that one.  But, most dogs it means working together.  Both of us enjoying what we are doing.  The dog understands that offering the behavior that I am looking for will benefit us both, it is not offered in fear, but voluntarily given.

I build respect with my dogs by being consistent, aware, observant and respectful of them.

Underdog_19

how do you know what your dog's definition of respect is?

I don't. But his behavior indicates what I call respect. I can see how my dogs treat my husband differently than they treat me. B'asia jumps up on him sometimes and mouths his hand as though he's a playmate rather than a "parent" or leader. She doesn't do that to me and that says (to me) that she has respect for me above and beyond that which she has for her "equals" in the pack. 

Underdog_19

I think that using that info, not perhaps Millan's thinking, and also incorporating Xerxes ideas, respect to a dog is leadership, routine, training.  That to me makes more sense.

That is right in line with what i think. 

Underdog_19

I firmly believe the more info you have, the greater advantage you are in.  I've found that my guy responds best to a mix of Millan (leadership, routine) and +R (training).

Agree 100%. My dogs benefit from my willingness to keep an open mind and read all I can and then use my intelligence and good judgment (based on my desire to do the very best for them) choose bits and pieces that make sense and work for our situation.

FourIsCompany

I don't. But his behavior indicates what I call respect. I can see how my dogs treat my husband differently than they treat me. B'asia jumps up on him sometimes and mouths his hand as though he's a playmate rather than a "parent" or leader. She doesn't do that to me and that says (to me) that she has respect for me above and beyond that which she has for her "equals" in the pack. 

This is the problem I'm running into.  I don't pretty much all the training and leadership.  My fiance comes home and just cuddles and hugs and pets Dixie and gives him the high pitched voice.  In return she/we get an over excited dog that runs around crazily and gets mouthy when I'm not around.  So I guess you could say I get the respect and not her, even after I've told her many times about this and a trainer has also.

 I respect my animals, but they don't necessarily respect me!

I think the different way my dog treats people has more to do with trust than respect. She's comfortable with me doing all sorts of things to her that she wouldn't like from other people, and she always listens to me but not always to other people. I think to a degree she respects people who don't let her get away with things. She'll usually try it on with someone new, testing them. If they pull her up with a stern word and sound like they expect her to listen, they've passed her test and from then on, she listens to them all the time and adores them. If they aren't confident she'll listen to them, she takes that to mean she doesn't have to. I've found that conviction that you will be heeded goes a long way to earning respect from any dog, and humans too. Not so much other animals, though. My rabbit cares not for conviction, because she is always supremely confident in the way she feels and the rightness of it. She out-convicts me every time. My last rabbit took conviction as a challenge. Not so conducive to a trusting relationship.

It seems like it's pretty common for one person in the house to do most or all of the training, and we notice a difference in the ways the dogs respond to both parties. It's like that in my house. The dogs love DH and DH loves the dogs but he does exactly zero of the training, doesn't know the first thing about how to train a dog, and doesn't listen very carefully to me when I give him exact instructions for how to deal with X Y or Z problem. He's heard me blow our emergency recall whistle a katrillion times in a set pattern--the same way every time. Yet when he picks that dang thing up to blow it he just kind of tootles any old which way he pleases (even though I have explicitly told him: this is the way you blow it). And no matter how many times I've told him to ignore the dogs' obnoxious attention-seeking behavior (even down to how to ignore it most effectively) he still manages to completely indulge them, all the while going "No guys, come on, get out of here, scram". None of the differences in how the dogs behave around me versus him have to do with respect, in my mind. It's two things: dogs not being able to generalize that well unless you put the effort in to helping them do so, and the human involved not knowing how to effectively handle dogs.

How are our dogs supposed to know that "sit" means sit no matter who says it when only one person ever actually says it and enforces (and reinforces) it? Just because they have a relationship with DH doesn't mean they automatically know that.

houndlove

How are our dogs supposed to know that "sit" means sit no matter who says it when only one person ever actually says it and enforces (and reinforces) it? Just because they have a relationship with DH doesn't mean they automatically know that.

 My DH is the same and the method that worked best for "fixing" him was to allow him and my son to take Gunnar out hunting alone. I happened to be ill on that day and it was a disaster for them. When the DH came home his first question was "How come Gunnar was so bad? He would not listen to my directions, he took off in the wrong directions and it took forever to get him to come". I asked him was he handling the dog like I do? How did you ask him to change directions? How did you ask him to come? As it turns out Gunnar had no idea what DH wanted. He tried to comply with his extreme body gestures, his jumping up and down and his yelling but Gunnar ended up very confused and just decided that the best course of action was just to go off and find birds and maybe that would make  DH happy. No matter that the birds were in the next county.

 Since that one trip DH has listened and understands all the commands and cues needed to hunt with Gunnar. He is still not perfect at home and often babbles to the dogs and repeats commands and allows them to get away with things but he has improved a lot. And when hunting (although I always go to) he can handle Gunnar pretty well now. He at least understands that Gunnar does not speak fluent english, that long sentances requestiong that he turn to the north, proceed 50 yards to his right and check out that big bush, mean nothing to Gunnar, but with proper whistles and cues he can direct Gunnar to that very spot. His first trip alone he was just blowing the whistle like a madman and expecting Gunnar to know that the first time he blew it meant go to the right, the next time meant stop and wait and the last time meant come.

 Poor Gunnar