Aggression with Certian Dogs

Many dogs will fight over valued objects.  At our dog park, we had a no toy policy because of this. 

One day, someone brought a toy and left it there, and one of Sasha's good friends picked it up.  We entered the park, Sasha went flying over to greet her friend, and ended up with a puncture in her nose.  

 They eventually made up, but it took a little while.

 Toys and dog parks are a bad mix.

 

MTaylor

A guy that is a regular at the park told me that I need to dominate him by flipping him on his back...I'm not sure if this would be effective and I'm also not sure on how I'm supposed to flip my 60 pound all muscle dog onto his back...this could make for a good America's Funniest Home Video tape...

Wrong, that guy is a typical example of thinking he knows but has no idea of what he is talking about, that technique is very dangerous and should not be done by anyone but a professional that knows when and why to apply it, some people here would tell you that are against it even if is done by a pro but since the bottom line is that you could get bitten then you should not do it ever

If you take your dog to a dog park those are the risks you will encounter, is like doing roller blading and not expecting to fall a couple times, in the dog park there are a lot of dogs with no rules, boundaries or limitations that have owners that let them do whatever they want, it does not matter how well trained your dog is, there are always be "rude" dogs at the dog park that might not like what your dog does or does not do, now if your dog is actually one of them since he is the one that gets mad when some other dog has something is his mouth, then i think is time for you to set some rules boundaries and limitations, maybe the other dogs are willing to share what they have but if your dog approaches to them in a "hey you give me that right now" kind of way then that is rude

You can start with NILIF Nothing In Life Is Free, thats a good start  

Actually, that "technique" is abuse and shouldn't be done by anyone.  If your dog is a resource guarder, you need to take him to parks like Dog_ma's, where there is a no toy rule, or keep him out of the park, since he seems to be the instigator.  It isn't fair to others to allow him to fight with them over toys - someone is bound to get punctured, even accidentally, sooner or later.  There is a lot you can do to prevent your dog from guarding things against you, but very little you can do to prevent him from doing it with other dogs. 

spiritdogs

Actually, that "technique" is abuse and shouldn't be done by anyone.

See MTaylor? my comment applies to the avobe post also:

espencer

typical example of thinking he knows but has no idea of what he is talking about

So it goes both ways, from thinking that you should do it because you need to be dominant to thinking that you should not because thats "abuse", one does it way too much, the other never did it even once to know exactly what it really is

And thats why i said:

espencer

bottom line is that you could get bitten then you should not do it ever

Regardless if it is dominance or "abuse", just dont do it  

espencer

Regardless if it is dominance or "abuse", just dont do it

Well-spoken.

 FWIW, I don't expect all dogs to get along as if they had union cards and secret handshakes. In my own anthropromorphizing way, it reminds me of how humans don't always get along with each other. Each case is a separate issue. Shadow has been snarly at a few dogs and absolutely adoring of others. I think dogs can have preferences in what company they keep.

espencer

Wrong, that guy is a typical example of thinking he knows but has no idea of what he is talking about, that technique is very dangerous and should not be done by anyone but a professional that knows when and why to apply it, some people here would tell you that are against it even if is done by a pro but since the bottom line is that you could get bitten then you should not do it ever

Can you come and talk to a couple of handlers at our foster dog showings?  Two of them took turns scruffing and force rolling a 20-lbs, tiny dog.  The dog bit both of them and that seemed to justify their forced submission technique.  This was a public display and my reaction was to SHOUT to leave the little dog alone.  The response was the dogs needs to be submitted more.  I SHOUTED more.  What a public scene.

To the OP, you must accomodate the other dogs in the dog park.  You dog does not play nice, so your dog can not play.  Need to manage his doggie dates so no toys are present.  Just need to look for the right park or create your own.  How old is the dog? 

Conner is 9 months old. The dog park usually does not have any toys except for a bunch of tennis balls that are randomly laying around the yard.  There was a younger girl there (don't know why her parents let her bring the dog without them) handing out pig ears to different dogs, there are many things wrong with this in my opinion, but I specifically told her not to give Conner one because I didn't want there to be any chance for another dog to take it and start this aggression thing with another dog.  I did notice that he now has a short tolerance to boxers...he will play with them but if they get too rough he starts to get mad. I've also started staying close to him at the park and anytime he gets too rough or seems like he is starting to get too aggressive I'll call his name which usually calms him down.  I've also been working with him at home on listening and have been making him "sit" and "wait" until I tell him to go on various occasions, such as getting in the car, getting his food, going outside, etc.  I've also noticed that if he is not listening all I have to do is to get down on his level and look in his eyes and tell him again. He will usually look down and then do as I told him.

As for the park the new rule is when he starts getting rough, I make him sit by my for a little to cool off and if he starts getting really aggressive we leave. Does anyone know if he will relate us leaving to him being aggressive or does he just think it's time to go? I was also talking to a family friend last night about it.  They have the sweetest, well behaved dog and apparently (she couldn't remember the breed) that dog has a problem with a certain breed too.  So I guess it just made me feel better that even their dog had a problem with a breed.

MTaylor

Does anyone know if he will relate us leaving to him being aggressive or does he just think it's time to go?

In my opinion, no. A correction or punishment has to happen as the behavior is happening or within 1 to 1.5 seconds of it. And some dogs will ignore the correction. It is either attention or a nuisance. A true correction has to stop the behavior the first one or two times applied, otherwise, it loses its effect. Re-leashing him and taking him home doesn't feel like a punishment, it feels like the human leading him to somewhere else. It's just time to go. He could come back to the park the next day and do the same thing. For whatever reason, the aggressive behavior is rewarding and therefore gets reinforced. The ideal would be to make the good behavior more rewarding and allow the bad behavior to extinguish.

IMO, dog parks are a bad idea, throwing a bunch of dogs together, and not always the same group can create problems. I would never expect any of my dogs to just accept all dogs in a dog park.

Now, a play group where the dogs have a proper chance to get to know each other, and it being a repetetive thing, would be much better.

The thing that sucks about it, is that this dog is a regular. It's usually the same group and this boxer that Conner doesn't like, is there everyday usually. The dog park, in my opinion, is a great idea. He gets out a lot of energy, I would have to run 2 miles twice a day to get out all of his energy. Maybe I can switch parks and make sure he doesn't try to get anyone's toys....

I don't take my dogs to dog parks, but I did read there are parks where toys are not allowed......any parks like that available in your area?

Ron, do you really believe that by rewarding the positive the negative/bad behavior will go away?

MTaylor

The dog park, in my opinion, is a great idea. He gets out a lot of energy, I would have to run 2 miles twice a day to get out all of his energy.

And your opinion is well respected

Now this is the way i see it: taking your dog to a dog park is like taking a kid to chuck e cheese, walking (or running) with your dog is like taking a kid to soccer practice, which one do you think will make him burn more energy?

A dog park is like a big backyard or a big kennel, there is no difference for the dog, a dog has the need of moving forward, that he is "migrating" someplace and comes back home, a win-win situation, a dog park is a lose-lose situation, you cant control other dogs and yours is not burning as much energy as he could

Do you remember at school how tired you felt because you just came out from a long and very difficult exam? thats what the dog gets also with a structured walk, walking your dog twice a day for like 30 or 40 minutes will tire your dog as much as the dog park, you can add dog training for mental exercise, if still has energy to burn you can buy a doggy backpack and fil it with water, that adds a little bit of weight to the dog and he feels he has a "job" or purpose during the walk

On a walk you can control the environment and your dog almost to a 100%, on a dog park you wont 

ron2

MTaylor

Does anyone know if he will relate us leaving to him being aggressive or does he just think it's time to go?

 

A true correction has to stop the behavior the first one or two times applied, otherwise, it loses its effect. Re-leashing him and taking him home doesn't feel like a punishment, it feels like the human leading him to somewhere else. It's just time to go. He could come back to the park the next day and do the same thing. For whatever reason, the aggressive behavior is rewarding and therefore gets reinforced. The ideal would be to make the good behavior more rewarding and allow the bad behavior to extinguish.

What?  Stopping a fun time, stopping a highly socializing event is not punishment.  Timeout works very well for me and that is what this seems to be.  The dog gets it.  Even Karen Pryor warns about abruptly stopping a Clicker Training session because of the 'let down' effect.  I myself have never done a dog park and I don't think I will.  There are other ways of exercising dogs.  But I do respect those that use dog parks so long as they accept the risk.  

For the OP, may be you can attend the park at different hours when there are less dogs or no dogs.  I don't particularly like the idea of using other people dogs to train yours.   You can achieve socialization by having structured playdates.  Until you have certainity of the dog's behavior without corrections, I would practice control outside of a public park.