Resource Guarding - Need Help

Some dogs are prone to this because of “temperament tendencies”. Others have learned to be this way. Much of this sort of aggression is man made as you argue. But not by trade but by choosing to discipline guarding, people get angry when their dog takes things, then fail to give him a way to please them. They create a situation where, once something is in their dog's mouth, there is no way for the dog to win. This can force the dog to start defending himself to protect his valuables.  Dogs will choose aggression in an attempt to back you off.

luvmyswissy

Some dogs are prone to this because of “temperament tendencies”. Others have learned to be this way. Much of this sort of aggression is man made as you argue. But not by trade but by choosing to discipline guarding, people get angry when their dog takes things, then fail to give him a way to please them. They create a situation where, once something is in their dog's mouth, there is no way for the dog to win.

Dangerous to say the least, letting a dog win in any situation is not a safe approach IMO, I can't subscribe to that approach simply , because I don't think a dog should always win.

Teaching "Drop" could be considered discipline.

luvmyswissy

Just because you should be able to take things from your dog, doesn't mean you should make it a point to repeatedly bother your dog while it is eating or march over and take things just because you can. One of the worst things you can do is practice challenging and stealing from your dog. You can annoy the nicest dog into becoming ready for the next challenge and make matters much worse, or even create a problem where there really wasn't one.

I don't think I have ever seen a post I agreed with more - particularly that last sentence. 

I don't know, I've never bothered about this guarding business, our current dogs have always been fine without us really "training" them to be that way.  I wonder - if you have "trained" your dog to be "good" about his food and toys.... perhaps he would have been "good" without your training?  (NB generic "your";).  I wonder if the "good" dogs don't need the training, and the "not good" dogs can never have enough of it....?  Swissy, I love the point you make about drive.  It may well be that I am just plain lucky on that score and that is why our dogs are fine about food etc. with no real training.  I think holistically having a good relationship founded on trust goes a loooong way to enable you to handle your dog(s) any way you need to, with little "training" to achieve it.

I am with mudpuppy, that the dog in the OP needs management right now... which means being very careful that the dog has no access to things like chocolate!  Mine never get access to chocolate either.  Thats not because I *can't* take things away from them physically.  Its not because they *haven't* got a good "drop" command.  It's because sometimes they can swallow faster than I can get to them, or indeed, say "DROP IT" !  On that note, I far prefer saying DROP IT than physically taking stuff, because when the dog has something potentially dangerous in their mouth, speed is of the essence.  (And, as I have said before, just because you CAN doesnt mean you SHOULD.)

I agree I don't think anyone should train a dog not to resource guard by taking things away.  If I go by Kenya's food bowl, it's b/c I'm putting something IN it, like a piece of cheese or a fish.  Consequently, she doesn't guard b/c there's nothing to guard.  Her items aren't high value to her b/c 1) I always give her something better than what she's already got and 2) I don't take them away from her.  The only thing I have to take is the rawhide b/c I don't like her chewing and swallowing them when I'm not supervising.  She will swallow a chunk that is too big or sometimes chews until her mouth is bleeding.  But again, I always give her a chew once a day, so she doesn't need to guard it from me.  She'll get a fresh one that is bigger and tastier! 

I agree, a "Drop it " is the best option, I never said I grab things out of my dogs mouths on a regular basis, as a matter of fact you will find I always advertise a marker noise to get the desired result.....but, still......I am able to take things just in case of an emergency............I will repeat, "Trade" really would not be on the top of my list............

Wow, this became a hot thread.   Sorry I haven't been checking the board often (no access at work anymore).

 Thanks to everyone for their advice and input.  I need to go back and read the posts more thoroughly.

 We have been continuing to work on "drop it" and limiting freedom (no sitting on the ottoman or the bench in the living room).   It is going well so far.   We are also doing NILIF a little more seriously now.  We had been doing it all along but now she sits for everything - going outside, coming inside, water, etc etc.  

She is doing really well with respecting the boundaries of not being allowed on the furniture anymore.   Probably once each day she needs a "off" reminder but she responds right away and sticks to the floor for the rest of the day. 

I agree that we probably screwed up somewhere along the line with Bailey.   But that being said, we obviously realize we have a problem and are trying to fix it.  Lesson learned for the next dog.  I don't know what else the critics can expect.

 So thanks everyone - keep the suggestions coming.  I will keep you posted on how it is going.

You know something.....I am very proud of you and your family......it takes a good person to admit having messed up, and an even better person knowing how to fix it in the future

snownose

I agree, a "Drop it " is the best option, I never said I grab things out of my dogs mouths on a regular basis, as a matter of fact you will find I always advertise a marker noise to get the desired result.....but, still......I am able to take things just in case of an emergency............I will repeat, "Trade" really would not be on the top of my list............

 I practice both taking and trading. It depends on the circmstances. I do firmly believe that the human should always be able to take anything without the dog taking offense or behaving in an aggressive manner. With puppies I practice leave it and reward them with something else when they leave the object I have asked them to alone. I practice "release" and remove things they are chewing or playing with. I may hold it a few moments and praise them and then give it back. On occasion I do not give it back, but when I do this I distract them by providing some other activitiy, perhaps we will go outside or something. When they are chewing on juicy bones I will practice touching them, touching the bone, sometimes taking the bone and giving it back. In the end I am able to take anything they have from them if needed.

 For older dogs (fosters) I will always start with trades and only after the dog is completley settled into the home. I think the point is to do everything possible to achieve the state where you can take something if needed, without stressing the dog or forcing him into a position where he thinks he has to defend something from you.

 Although I firmly believe that it is important for the human to be able to remove anything, I also firmly believe that if you have a dog that is displaying aggression due to never being taught this from the beginning, or because the dog is new to your home you should move slowly and carefully and take care not to encourage the dog's defense. This IMO can be best done by trading up and distracting and should end with you being able to remove something and not replace it at all. I also believe that this is not something that should be practiced all the time. It is a fine line and I am not sure how to define it well.

  When out walking on the mesa a few weeks ago, Hektor found a wonderful prize, a skeleton of a rabbit complete with wonderful bits of meat stil hanging in places. He was so very proud and happy with his prize. When he sauntered up, grinning and happy I told him "my that looks wonderful" and asked him to "release" and he did. I then gave it back for a moment asked him to release again and he did. I then told him to leave it, he had to think about this for a moment and was visably torn with going back to the rabbit or following after me, he followed, glancing back a couple of times and I told him good boy and rewarded him with a treat and we continued the walk.

 I guess to sum it up I would say that I do not tolerate resource guarding, but at the same time I work carefully to prevent it and as Snow stated it is not just running up and snatching things from the dog and "lording over him" it is not intimidation or bossing but it is very important to having a dog that is safe should a child happen to run up to him while he is wokring on a tasty bone. IMO those who fail to practive these activities often are the most shocked when the dog bites someone who just happened to bend down to pet them while they were chewing on a prize. I would also like to add that I disagree with certain tests for aggression whereby a strange dog is offered food and then the food is removed and if the dog protests he is labled as aggressive.

Your site suggest teaching cues, C&CC to desensitize a reaction, and then trade up primarily using food.  But what happens if you try and take away the highly prized food treat that you used all along to manipulate the dog.  Would you agree you are recommending a reactivity transference from one item to another item where there is a remote possibility that you would ever take back or want to for that matter, the highly prized food treat?  Is the dog actually cured of the resource guarding problem?  Isn't this a relationship problem having to do with trust.  Would trust training work better.  I am just a simple JQP dog owner trying to follow the logic.

So my post was back up at the top of the list, so I thought I would provide an update.

We have been working with a behaviorist (Dr. Amy Marder) on Bailey's guarding behavior.   With Dr. Marder we have had 2 office appointments and weekly phone calls for updates. 

As a first step, we pet her when she had a rawhide, kong, etc.   We had a bit of a set back and then went to dropping treats when she had something "good".  Then we would drop a treat and pat her.  Now we are at petting and then dropping the treat.   Everything is going well very so far.   Now the poor dog broke a nail and has an e-collar on so she has this week off for healing and Christmas :)

snownose

I even open the mouth so the vet can check the teeth.

I just give the "Smile" command.  That's usually sufficient.   

snownose

maybe all this hands off,+R, not handling one's dogs has a nasty backlash...

Wow, that's a strong condemnation.

To the OP:  I practiced the same things that you practiced.  I work on it daily even now.  I trained the "Drop" command as well.  I have a high prey drive dog, probably one of the highest and I've even gotten him to "Drop" a squirrel that he caught and had in his mouth squirming.

How did I do this?  I hand fed, traded, traded up, played games with multiple toys, and got excited over silly things and made him want what I had rather than what he had.  I held super high value items while he ate them, I'd hold two high value items and trade between the two as to which one he'd be able to chew, substituted lower value items at times and also replaced the high value items when I wanted to.  I marked good behavior and redirected improper behavior.

 Every dog, every trainer and every training session is unique.  There are certain protocols that seem to work most of the time with most dogs.  The "trade" behavior is one of them.  Is it possible that the humans could get a bit more excited about the trading?  Do the "Look what I've got, I'm so happy" dance, squeal with glee.  In my opinion the humans should be so excited about the item that it distracts the dog from doing whatever the dog is doing.

It's always tricky with high value items.  Trust is the main issue, the drop it, leave it, and trade commands can be taught even with resource guarders.  I also recommend that you get and read "Mine" which was recommended in at least one other post.

Keep a good attitude and be positive, I know you can do this.
 

Wow, this thread came back from death....lol....

Xerxes, the dog I am refering to is scared to death of the vet and the vet felt he needed to be muzzled.....not so fast....I did not let that happen, as I know my dog trusts me and I trust him.

I am happy to hear the OP is making big progress.....