Resource Guarding - Need Help

Yes, unfortunately these situations usually get worse as the dog nears adulthood at aproximately 2 yrs of age.

To the untrained eye, "submissive" behavior, can sometimes be "dominant", manipulative behavior.

Sounds like she respects other dogs, but not humans.

Yes, this is the downside of the "trade" method...the dog has to wanna. Sorry, I think the trade method is lame in an emergency situation. You should be able to take any item from your dog at any time, IMOAE.

You have been reading this forum awhile now even though you do not post much. I don't know if all of the conversations regarding this topic are still accessable, but I'm sure you've read at least portions of the great debates on how to deal with this.

The good news is, it sounds like you are now ready to get serious before this dog hits full maturity.

I recommend hands-on, eyes-on help with someone with more than a trading method in their tool box.

The entire relationship between all members of your household should be evaluated and a plan put into action.

Due to the situation now escalating into a bite, I recommend finding someone through The International Association of Canine Professionals (IACP). You can find them at:

 www.dogpro.org/

Good luck!

Angelique

You should be able to take any item from your dog at any time, IMOAE.

Sure, great in theory, but that's why you train up to that, right? That's what the "trade" is all about - getting the dog to *want* to relinquish its prizes to its owner (because in past experience doing so yielded something even better than whatever it was they had).

It sounds to me like you're taking some good steps towards fixing the problem. If you're at all worried and stressed about it, I would say yes, find a behaviorist. Here's another place to look: http://www.iaabc.org/ It sounds like you know what you're doing and are dedicated to working this out, so I think you'll make some god progress. Still, I can't stress enough how much hiring a professional can help your peace of mind. Much less worrying "Am I doing this right?" "Am I going to screw up my dog?" etc. If you find a professional you trust, he or she can answer all those naggy little questions for you!

Cita

Much less worrying "Am I doing this right?" "Am I going to screw up my dog?" etc

Exactly...  I don't want to screw her up even more!   As soon as I think I'm doing something right, I'll read something contradictory...  

 Thanks Angelique and Cita for the links.

 Does anyone have any experience with the Behavior Clinic at Tufts in MA?

Ok, you adopted at 11 weeks....you had the right start of teaching the dog the correct protocol....this is a failure on your part.

I have adopted at that age, and I can't see how your situation went wrong.....with that being said, the trade for "Wrong Items" for the dog does not work all the time......it gives the dog an option, the option is.....a reward, no matter what....the dog wins.......chocolate wins over just about anything.......I have a Husky/Mal. mix that is addicted to chocolate....how do I know? Last year around Easter he snagged a whole chocolate bunny....but, I still can take it out of his mouth....I rescued him at 5 months.........so, imo.....a dog owner should be able to take a high value item out of a dog's moth no matter what......

snownose

so, imo.....a dog owner should be able to take a high value item out of a dog's moth no matter what......

So then how do you achieve that? IMO some training suggestions would be more helpful than value judgments about what people should or shouldn't be able to do with their dogs.

You're missing the point of the "trade game" if you think a dog will decide "chocolate is better than anything" .The point of the trade game is the dog never knows WHAT you have to offer; all the dog knows is that often it is better than what the dog has, and also often the dog gets what he originally has back-- a win win situation. Once the dog is trained in the "trade" game, he can and will drop the item in his mouth on command and need not even be rewarded with more than praise.

Resource guarding is not a dominant behavior. Often very submissive dogs are the worst resource guarders-- they don't get much, so when they do get something good they really want to keep it. And I think it is very unrealistic to suggest that owners should be able to remove items from all dogs mouths.  I would never even attempt to pry something out of one of my dog's mouths-- for one thing, they are so big I have to use a crowbar to get the mouth open. I would encourage everyone to never attempt to pry something out of their dog's mouths. A single incident of forcible removal of an item can trigger ever-escalating severe resource guarding. Your goal in training your dog is to set up a "contract of trust": dog learns he will never have his stuff forcibly removed from him, so he relaxes and learns he doesn't have to guard his stuff from you. You violate his trust you deserve what you get.

So OP, just get out there and practice your "drop it" command every day. Play the trade game a lot. Re-build trust. And MANAGE THE ENVIRONMENT until the dog is reliable. There shouldn't be an opportunity for the dog to steal chocolate.

 My copy of Jean Donaldson's "Mine" just arrived in the mail today and it looks like it's going to be amazingly helpful. I'd really recommend checking it out - maybe the local library has a copy you could thumb through?

It is my understanding that the laws in the "dog world" state that "once it is in my mouth, it belongs to me!"

Even the alpha dog will not take something out of the pack's lowest ranking dog's mouth!

So, in their mind, we (as humans usually are) are being extremely rude by doing this. 

After all, they have no idea that chocolate is poisonous and we are trying to HELP them... 

Some dogs may allow this more readily than others even without training, but it makes sense to me that it would be their normal response to fight (or bite) for it unless they have been taught otherwise (a command to "trade" or "drop";)

That's Just my 2 Cents... (I had to research this last year for a foster German Shepherd that was a resource guarder)
Jean Donaldson's book MINE! was a great resource for us.

Often very submissive dogs are the worst resource guarders-- they don't get much, so when they do get something good they really want to keep it.

Also very true...we have a 7 month border collie in rescue now that has shown some food guarding issues with other dogs.  This same dog is so submissive that he pees when you bend over to pet him. 

I used the trade game exclusively on my sheltie/BC.  She is a rescue and thought she was firmly in charge of any tid bit she came across.  I spent months and months trading with her and now she drops whatever is in her mouth immediately.  It really has become a conditioned response. Plus I think trust becomes an over riding factor... with time it comes together.

 Dyanne
 

Cita, I achieve that by doing so right from the beginning when they are pups......or very young......my dogs know I control all things......I should be able to take things out my dogs mouth......in case of an emergency.....I make it a game.....I take the item almost playlike saying things like....let me see what you got, and then sticking it back in the dog's mouth...... I gotta tell ya....most people, imo tiptoe too much around their dogs....

I wanted to add something about the trust factor......in previous years the vet wanted to muzzle some of my dogs because the dogs were uncomfortable around the vet.....I would not let that happen, as a matter of fact, I hold the dogs and they do the examination, I even open the mouth so the vet can check the teeth.....maybe all this hands off,+R, not handling one's dogs has a nasty backlash.....

RKimball

Here is what we are doing already:
Revoked all furniture privledges - she now hangs out on the floor.
Keeping all guarding-inducing things away from her reach (trash, etc)
Trying to train a reliable "drop it". Started today with her toys (that she doesn't guard) and some junky kibble. She is catching on.

Those are a good start.

I also have a very submissive, insecure dog.  What I've done with her is build trust before I ever tried to take anything away.  She came to me as an adult, so I don't know if she's ever been a guarder or not, and I'm not going to find out b/c it ain't gonna happen.  What I did for the first month was give her things rather than take.  I would sit by her while she add and nonchalantly drop bits of meat into her bowl throughout the meal.  If she had a toy, I would pet her and say something nice, give her a treat for playing nice with her toy, and walk away.  I don't want her assuming that I'm always going to take whatever she has.  The problem is not that the dog wants to keep what it has, but for whatever reason it thinks that it has to guard it or it will never get it.  The dog needs to trust that you WILL give it treats and food and chews, just when you want to.  Giving and trading also helps devalue the items the dog has.  My dog has only one toy that she will play with and usually when I take it from her mouth, I give it right back.  She gives me this look like "what, you're not going to hold it above your head so I can't have it?"  Nope.  It's just a toy, I don't care.  As long as I CAN take it, she can do whatever she wants to it, I have nothing to prove. 

Liesje, you bring up a good point about trust, it is my personal opinion that if there is trust involved in the relationship between the handler and the dog, things will be a lot easier.....I guess, what I am saying is, I trust my dogs not to bite me, and they trust that I take the item and give it right back, no harm done......there is nothing one has to prove, it's just nice to have a trusting relationship with one's dog.....

I am glad to hear you are making good progress with Kenya......

Exactly.  I wanted to be able to trust each other, but that can't happen on day one, especially with a dog with "issues" so instead of mistaking leadership and dominance as trust, I had to give her reasons to trust me and do nice things for her for no real reason.  If someone was always removing privileges and taking things away, I would not trust them either.  Those things must be done now, but that's management, not training.  Trust happens when the real training happens.

I can take anything from her mouth without hesitation.  I have not needed a "drop it" command b/c she releases the object as soon as I reach for it.  If she pulled back, I'd introduce a command.  I don't feel I should have to fight my own dog!  At this point, the only things I take from her are her rawhides.  She gets a little overzealous with the chewing and swallowing, so she gets a rawhide on her dog bed while I'm getting ready for bed and then I take it away when I go to sleep.  I get an "aw....do you have to take it?" look at that's it.  Maybe she was guardy, maybe she should be now....I dunno, but I made it top priority to establish trust immediately and not even go there.

mudpuppy

There shouldn't be an opportunity for the dog to steal chocolate.

 I manage my environment the best I can, but when the dog noses through the shopping bag as I am putting away groceries, while I have my back turned...well, it is a good thing I can get the item out of his mouth......I actually think it is sad that you don't trust your dog enough to be able to take something.......jmo....