Create, "safe place" or "you cant touch me here"?

In "Marlowe's Room" he has a dog bed outside of his crate, but his crate is in there too with a fleecy crate-liner. Yesterday when I came home, he very sloooowly stumbled down the stairs to greet me, all blinky and yawning. I went up to his room and felt inside his crate and sure enough it was all warm from where he'd been sleeping the day away. He could have used his other bed, but chose the dark crate (it's a plastic one with a towel draped over it for extra darkness). 

ORIGINAL: wisewilddog

ORIGINAL: Xerxes



That...is just sad, that a dog feels the need to retreat to it's crate...because the *humans* don't know what they're doing. Therefore the dog is actually running and hiding from those he/she should trust. Which is a good way to create a unstable dog.

 
This is, unfortunately a situation that happens all too frequently.  I don't think it's sad, I think it's beneficial to the dog to know that there is a safe place, not just safe from correction, but safe for the environment (ie: your couch, bed, furniture etc...) and safe for the dog in general.  I don't think a dog is unstable because he/she has a crate to escape to.  In the wild all wolves or wild dogs or coyotes don't get along 100% of the time and they will leave the pack for a short time...a day or two, or even for just a few hours.  Sometimes even the alphas will wander off for a few days or even weeks.  This doesn't create distrust amongst the pack.

In our homes we don't speak canine sign language, nor do we have noses keen enough to understand what is trying to be said.  In our home the dog can tell us "back off jack" and we misread the entire sequence and are on the phones with a behaviorist or seeking guidance elsewhere, or at the extreme we decided that this dog needs a shock collar because "no dog is gonna tell me not to touch him."

Again this is a dog that is not trusting it's humans, and to me...it's sad that a dog should feel the need to escape from it's human pack. Perhaps the humans should try and learn more about dogs...before bringing one home.
 
This isn't really exclusively about trust, it's about trust AND communication.  People don't speak dog and dogs don't speak human.  It's not entirely natural.  In fact if you were to see a dog posing like Xerxes is in my signature, the natural reaction is that he's prefacing an attack.  But he's not, that's actually a Pharaoh Hound smile.  Since most people don't know that, they're quite intimidated by that posture. 
 
I think that some techniques used to train dogs (called "time trusted and true" by some) have really ingrained mistrust, suspicion and fear into their dogs.  The main method I'm referring to is the "rub their nose in it" method of house training. 
 
Should people learn more about dogs and their behavior, yes- as it could end alot of the mistrust and misunderstood communication.  Will they?  No.  We're a society of "fix it now!" people that want our instant pudding in the fridge ready to go and our TiVo on standby; we expect the same for our dogs in reference to training.  If the dog doesn't learn the first 3 times, why should I waste my time...I'll ship him to boot camp.  That doggy boot camp probably helped the pup but it didn't help the owner, because the dog comes home with a new set of problems and the owner still hasn't figured out how to work with the dog to solve those.
 
A crate is a great place for a time-out.  To parents: have you ever sent your child to his/her room?  A crate is that place for the dog.  It creates seperation and allows both the human and the dog to be comfortable.

I also believe some people when they say "their dogs like their crate" My question is...why? I have owned multiple dogs in the past, and I have worked with multiple dogs as well. My observations are...well ajusted dogs while needing a little peace sometimes can do so by simply going and laying down in their spot, they've no need to...hide.

I've enjoyed your thoughts on this subject.
Thanks

 
I think that sometimes, a crate is just a better option for certain dogs.  I don't crate, but I do limit access to the apartment when I'm not there.  I use a baby gate.  Now both of my dogs could jump over this baby gate without much effort at all.  But they don't.
 
Also, a crate is useful in keeping dogs seperated for whatever reason:  Two intact dogs, two dogs that don't get along the best...and so on.  I think one of our posters here related a story where 6 Amstaffs were crated but escaped from their crates...a fight ensued while the owner was away.  Five of the dogs died from their injuries before she arrived home and the 6th died later at the vet's office.  So having a secure crate can save your dogs life, in certain circumstances.
 
I'll reiterate my opinion that the crate should be a free zone for the dog.

I also believe some people when they say "their dogs like their crate" My question is...why? I have owned multiple dogs in the past, and I have worked with multiple dogs as well. My observations are...well ajusted dogs while needing a little peace sometimes can do so by simply going and laying down in their spot, they've no need to...hide.

Hiding??  my dog loves his crate but I can assure you he isn't hiding.  Just like having a spot on the floor they are use to their crates as their spots.  Even after a long day in the crate he almost always will go to his crate around 10ish everynight.  As if to say, "I'm going to bed now".

There is no difference if the dog is use to a crate, a spot, a chair, a bed etc.  It's were they are use to and comfortable with as there space.
 
I know people who would love to get rid of the eye sore crate but can't becasue there dogs love it to sleep in.  These are dogs (including my own) that were raised with it to protect them while they can't be supervised and to be sure that they don't demo your house when your not home.  By the time they mature and are reliable out of the crate alone they have already grown to love it.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

How is "And anyone with an OUNCE of common sense does NOT" anyless of an attack than what I've been *accused* of? My apologies if you felt that was directed at you.  It was not, rather it was general.

No worries.

I have major concerns about fire safety when I leave my home.  I am not concerned with contents...that's just stuff...but I do want my animals saved and I can only imagine what their reactions might be to a bunch of firefighters breaking into house in their strange atire.  When crated, they can be pulled to safety without any concern of danger to either the dogs OR the firefighters.  And I have an additional phone line installed for my fire alarm so that help will arrive promptly when I am away.

Thanks for clarifying that, which is understandable.

Apparently I just don't have your training abilities.  I am not a trainer and have never claimed to be.  Aside from the half arsed classes availabe here, I train my dogs myself, and I would kind of have thot that the fact that FIVE of them have earned their CGC's would attest that I'm doing ok, but I guess not.

It sounds to me like your doing just fine, we just do things a different. I've been working with dogs professionally for approx 25 years and a good portion of those were with drug, bomb, and human detection dogs. Over the past few years I've done behavior work only. I switched to that because of the high amount of request i was getting and the lack of actual help available out there. I spent almost every day...all day with dogs.  While I strictly use the crate as a training tool, I understand for some people...and some situations...they are needed. So it's not that i'm...against them.

My rescued german shepherd mix with lots of behavioral issues loves his crate - here's why I think that is so - he's a perimeter checking, vigilant dog who can really take his "guard dog" instincts to the extreme.  We are working on that, but in the meantime, when he's in his crate, he's not "working," he gets time off and it helps to keep him calmer.  And since he has aggressive issues, the calmer he is, the more in control he is.  And that's a very good thing.