Suggestion for all new dog owners: The Gentle Leader

snownose

My dogs will act excited going for a walk with cowbells tied around their necks.....would they like it? No......would it bother them, yes......but they would still go.....

 

I think one can invest the time in teaching the dog to walk with a regular collar.......

Sally can walk on a flat collar, but in situations where we might encounter other dogs I prefer to have her on the GL.  A tool is only as gentle or as severe as the hands that it is in.  I'd put even money on the fact that you could badly hurt a dog on a flat collar given the right circumstances.

You can think what you will, but my trainer, who does not normally recommend GLs, and has actually *seen* Sally work in one, says that it works very well for her and she seems to be perfectly happy wearing it.  I'll trust her judgment. 

head halter would be my absolute last choice as a training tool. 1) most dogs hate them and act miserable in them 2) potential for very serious neck injury if an accident or a squirrel happens 3) some dogs figure out how to take them off 4) most dogs don't actual learn anything about loose-leash walking in them-- you take the head halter off, and the dog immediately reverts to pulling.

Mudpuppy,

From your comments of thinking "injury if an accident or a squirrel happens" sounds like you do not have your dogs trained well enough for recall.

Just keep in mind, a responsible dog owner can stop neck injury before it happens. 

Ok for everyone else who is so against the Gentle Leader... what do you guys do for training loose leash walking?

"Just keep in mind, a responsible dog owner can stop neck injury before it happens. "

Not true. I've seen an owner turn her head to check for cars before crossing the street, and in that millisecond of misplaced attention dog lunged at a squirrel and ended up flipped to the ground by head, neck horribly wrenched.  I've also seen an out of control dog on a flexi bound happily up to a dog in a GL, and in the resulting fracase the loose dog got its leg wrapped up in the leash attached to the GL, and the dog in the GL got badly neck-wrenched.

I think as with every training tool, the owner needs to do their homework, evaluate their individual dog, and get some instruction before using. I remember when the head halters first came out and a lot of people did see them as an alternative to the "only game in town" which was a choker. Prongs are less accessible because it does take someone who knows what they are doing to help you fit it and a lot of people can't get past the way they look. Up against a choker, a head halter does look a lot better but I think over the years just as many caveats have been placed on use of head halters as there are with chokers. There's a right way and a wrong way to use everything. Or rather, there's 1 right way and about three dozen wrong ways to use everything. And no piece of equipment is going to be right for every dog. I suspect that Marlowe would just protest completely over a head halter, or a prong, and any training we were trying to do would be undermined by what I'm sure would be an Oscar winning Woe Is Me performance. He's a drama queen like that. Conrad I could see being fine with either one of those, and heck, we used to have him on a choker.

I never take as proof "Well my dog must like X because when he sees it he gets excited." I see it first hand with Marlowe and his backpack. When he sees the backpack come out, he gets excited because that can only mean one thing: a trip to the park. But I am not fooling myself about how he feels about his pack--he's not it's #1 fan. His attitude is not "I love my backpack because it means we go to the park!" It's "I will tolerate this pack if it means we get to go to the park." Big difference. Lots of working dogs get excited when their e-collars come out. Doesn't mean they love to get shocked (though if their training has been any good, they won't get shocked anyway), it just means they love to work MORE than they hate the collar.
 

Both situations sound like crap to me.  The owner in the first situation could do like I do... use a walking harness on a longer leash, dog pulls too far and hits the harness instead.  The owner in the second situation could have easily crossed the road and avoided the other dog.

Yeah, there are accidental situations that "could" happen... but they can happen with any training.  Hell your dog can break a leg while training, "Hup, Off."

I just see this tool as being the "least" intrusive of the other choices; being choke, pinch, prong, and electric collars.

Thanks for the info. I just took my border collie to the vet (and when we walk) she tends to pull.   I may have to give this little item a try and see how it works.

Hey guys, just do what is best for your dog in your situation.......in my situation, I hate any head halter....I guess it always reminds me of some little sheep or goat rebelling.....but, to each it's own......but, don't meet me over in the "Behavior" thread complaining about force.....ya...that about covers it.....good luck..........

I just see this tool as being the "least" intrusive of the other choices; being choke, pinch, prong, and electric collars.

my experience is that dogs don't think it is "least intrusive". Most dogs hate them and find them very intrusive. Try basic loose-leash walking training first. If you need help while doing this, try an easywalk harness. If that fails, try a pinch/prong (same thing, by the way). Dogs don't seem to mind wearing either piece of equipment. Dogs don't mind ecollars either, but those I think should be reserved for advanced off-leash training. Chokers are dangerous and ineffective and should, IMHO, be banned.  

 coming in late here

1. I have never tried the GL - Bugs would never have it - and yes he is smart enough and strong enough that if you were lucky enough to get it on it wouldn't stay on.

However, there is a lab in our neighborhood who walks wonderfully with it and is as happy as can be

    2. accidents do happen, if you have a super powerful dog, intensely prey driven, or perhaps a small fragile dog - a single millisecond is all it takes.  You may feel that you can thwart all - I believe thats not ever possible

    3. Bugs has a GL harness, a sporn halter, and a prong.  He can walk nicely on a flat collar but I always have one of the former on him, the prong is the only one that really works if something occurs. He is not the largest dog (105 lbs) I have known but he is by far the strongest and has the most intense prey drive I personally have experienced.  I need to have something to control a dog that is more powerful than I am SHOULD something occur.  That is me being responsible
 

here is what i have to say. i have never used a gentle leader on my dogs, but have used it many times on friends dogs. here are my observations of hte tool, after these dogs and after working in a boarding kennel.

 what people fail to realize with tools like this one is that it doesnt fix anything. everydog i have ever walked with this thing, i have tried walking with just regular collar. well they still did the pulling and all the other bad habits that forced the owner to get a gl. the key with dogs is to solve problems not find ways to hide them.  the ideal is to train your dog to walk respectfully without these tools. i do not believe that any dog is untrainable, just that people give up.

Argh! Just wrote a post and hit a random button and my computer ate it.

 Loose leash walking is probably the most difficult of the basic obedience tasks we expect all dogs to be able to do (sit, down, come). We expect it to be easy for the dog and for us (after all, we see loose leash walking dogs all over the place, all dogs should be able to do this, right?) but it's really really not. For that reason it comes up a lot on training forums and on Dogster a rehabber/foster parent made a video on her page about how she teaches it with a clicker and rewards (she works with dumped puppy mill breeders, so these are dogs who have never lived in a home, never even worn a collar) . A couple other people on Dogster have used it since then and have reported good success. Here it is.

Houndlove,

Thanks! Something constructive!

I use either a flat buckle or martingale collar on Harley for loose leash walking. 

I may have caught something here...

There is a difference between:

• I use a XXX for training my dog on how to loose leash walk.
• I use a XXX for loose leash walking my dog.

Just to clarify, the GL is only supposed to be a training aid and not intended for use for the rest of your dog's life.