Suggestion for all new dog owners: The Gentle Leader

Did anyone watch the disc that comes with the Gentle Leader?  They show all of these poorly leash trained dogs.  There is one husky.  At the end of the teaching movie they show success with all of the different breeds of dogs, but I didn't see the husky being shown as one  of them,  but maybe I missed it!!

It does not work for my huskies, and I agree 2 thumbs down for my dogs.  It is not for all dogs.  However, the Easy walk harness is excellent, and none of the problems we encountered with GL. 

I never forced it on my dog, though I know what you mean, Snownose. Of course people do. I conditioned it with treats and then I really worked (and I mean worked) with him on paying attention to me and working with me as a team.

I do think he associates it with a management technique now because I do use it when he's too excited to control himself around squirrels. Yes, we're still working on paying attention, but without that thing he'd make a wreck of himself.

Whatever "tool" is used should be considered that--a way to teach the dog the right ways to behave. Before this I used choke collars and corrections and yes, they worked, but they took months and months and this took weeks.  Other than squirrels, which we'll probably always be working on ("control yourself";), I like having a dog who walks nicely with me, with only a flat collar on!

New here but jumping in with a good article on GLs/head collars:

http://www.flyingdogpress.com/headhalters.html

 

snownose

How can you make the statement that the folks I witnessed were using it improperly, so your assumption automatically is that if the dog doesn't like it the handler was not using it right?

I gave my personal opinion, and what I have seen was not pretty, that makes a leashpop look like a walk in the park......problem with the gentle leader in my opion is that not enough people can read body language of a dog and force that darn thing on the dog anyway.....

Reason I never used it, I have never had use for it......with enough training dogs will walk without it.....

 

If you would read my post, that is not what I said at all.  It means that the owner has either not gotten their dog used to it properly (therefore not using it properly), or they have gotten the dog used to it and the dog still hates it with a passion (therefore not using it properly).

Sally actually walks very well on a flat collar, but can be leash reactive.  This has helped use train her to relax and focus on us a great deal.
 

AgileGSD

New here but jumping in with a good article on GLs/head collars:

http://www.flyingdogpress.com/headhalters.html

Welcome to the board!

The article you posted by Suzanne Clothier is a good one!

Here is another cautionary article for those who are considering using one of these devices:

"A Not So Gentle Leader" by Roger Hild

http://www3.sympatico.ca/tsuro/_articles/gentle_leader.html

I to have never used it. I am sure it works as I have seen dogs walking in it. I do not recall ever seeing a happy dog walking in it which is why I do not like them.

Gentle Leader.....a contradiction in term.......the thing that I am not getting is, why spend all that time coaxing and training just to get the dog to accept that darn thing, why not just jump into teaching the dog to walk properly with a regular collar?

 

There is another thread going about being as easy as possible with a dog and one should not grab a dog by it's collar....because it is force after all....what the heck is forcing a dog to walk with a horrible contraption like that?

For those interested, it's in the "Behavior" section......

dgriego

I to have never used it. I am sure it works as I have seen dogs walking in it. I do not recall ever seeing a happy dog walking in it which is why I do not like them.

 

 

I can't speak for other dogs, but Sally's body language is the same with a GL or flat collar.  When we pick up the GL she wags and rushes to the door. 

snownose

Gentle Leader.....a contradiction in term.......the thing that I am not getting is, why spend all that time coaxing and training just to get the dog to accept that darn thing, why not just jump into teaching the dog to walk properly with a regular collar?

 

 

  The goal should be to eventually get the dog walking a a flat collar, but wheat should someone do in the meantime, not take the dog for walks?   That will be good for the energy levels.  Not everyone has a place to walk their dog off leash.
 

Wow!

It appears that with everything dog, you either have people who love or hate the training methods.  I was just passing along some information of my trials with my dogs.  Every dog owner should know of the Gentle Leader and all other options... as not all dogs respond the same way to all training methods.

What I have observed from my dog Atlas.  At about 4-5 months of age he is strong and loves to pull; we have been using a normal walking harness with him up to now and he will PULL PULL PULL to the point he is hurting himself with the amount of pressure he is exerting.  I looked into the normal Pit Bull solutions of Choke, Pinch, Prong, and Electric collars but all of these should not be used on normal walks as the dogs can associate the pain with things in their normal walking environment.  So, after reading the good and bad sides to the gentle leader I found that it was a good choice for Atlas.

The nicest thing about this is that the dog associates the discomfort with walking ahead or pulling.  As with Jake, my sister's dog, Atlas hated it at first but after an hour walk he was walking next to my side and moving with me.

You shouldn't use the Gentle Leader as a normal walking collar... it's an instrument that allows you to teach your dog where it is ok to be.  And once the dog is walking in the correct place with little or no corrections, you should be able to wean them from the Gentle Leader all-together.

I actually walked Atlas with both the Gentle Leader and the normal walking harness on... 2 reasons:

1. I  want him to always be use to the walking harness.
2. I set it up so he could only pull so far on the Gentle Leader before hitting the walking harness.  This alleviates the "sore neck" crap that can happen from a dog that loves to pull.

I have never tried the gentle leader. I saw them on dogs and did not llike the way they look. Dogs don't have "meat" on their noses to protect them, I wear glasses, I know how much a bump on the side of my glasses hurts my nose. Anyway, I took another approach I asked how they are supposed to work. I was told they do not put pressure on the nose but they, tighten on the dogs head in entirity if they pull, and soften as the dog stops pulling. Nice concept, BUT I also ride horses we call the article of head gear like that on a horse a "war bridle". NO THANK YOU! I have had dogs that pull, I have never had one that I know of get a sore neck. They did not exhibit any signs of soreness. I work and train them not to pull. Dogs are made with extra skin, hair and muscle around their necks to give them the added protection from the "go for the throat" kill. Ok so our dogs are domesticated now and don't necessarily have that issue any more. My point is the collars, or at least mine do, sit where my dogs have their natural protection. I will stick with regular collars and training. I do not have any problem with harnesses, I just don't use them.

Its great that there are so many options out there for collars, harnesses and gentle leaders.  I have a Shih Tzu and don't need a gentle leader.  Anyways, Harley has a flat buckle collar and a martingale collar for obedience classes.

I found that even the nylon choke was too much for him(the instructor wanted all dogs to have choke chains or nylon chains).  I found that Harley was more resentlful of the choke and resistant to training.  The choke actually was pulling his hair.  After doing some research I decided to try the martingale collar.  Harley likes this collar and it still offers correction....but to me the correction is more positive for him then the choke was. 

dgriego

I to have never used it. I am sure it works as I have seen dogs walking in it. I do not recall ever seeing a happy dog walking in it which is why I do not like them.

 Just to clarify. I have not used this tool ever, and when I say I do not like them it is more because every dog I have seen in one looks miserable.

 In the right hands and used correctly any tool is ok if it assists in helping the dog learn to walk happily next to the handler. If the GL works for you and your dog does not look like he would rather stay home than go for a walk in one then it is good.

 

I think it bears repeating that the GL has as much, if not more, potential for damage than the check chain.  Yanking on one of these devices is sooooo dangerous..... and so easy to do.  I have seen frustrated owners doing this and also excited dogs trying to LUNGE at the end of one.... OH DEAR!!!.  It is not how it is meant to be used.  I have even seen a greyhound owner with a greyhound on an "unlocked" retractable lead with a GL on!  I've seen them poorly fitted/adjusted, I've seen dogs wiggle out of them, I've seen dogs pull against them creating sores up round their eyes... the list goes on.....

OTOH I have heard it said that the dogs neck is his second strongest muscle, after the jaw and that a correction delivered to this area is therefore less damaging than the use of a head halter... but that does not take into account the damage that can be done to the trachea, or the fact that many people who use check, prongs, slip leads etc. use them HIGH UP on the dogs neck, where the extra "protection" does not exist.

Edit: (oops)  I think what I'm trying to say is ANY training tool has the potential for misuse/abuse and therefore harm.  I see so many people use check chains and GLs incorrectly.... I see these products on the shelves with little more than a leaflet or the packaging itself to tell folks how to use them.  We don't really see prong collars sold in shops here, so I can't really comment on those.

I think every dog needs to be conditioned WELL to a GL before it is ever used on a walk.  If that means no walks for a couple of days, I think it is worth it!!!  IMO, every dog also needs a refresher on LLW at home and something like "sit at heel" and/or "watch me.  This is even more important with dogs that do net PULL, but are reactive and LUNGE at certain stimuli.  The owner needs to PAY ATTENTION and prevent the dog from lunging with well practised "sit"/"watch me" commands BEFORE the dog begins to react... I see so many that seem to think they don't need to do anything now, look the dog doesnt pull any more... then something MAKES the dog pull and the dog is in serious danger of injuring his neck....  I appreciate I'm prbably singing to the choir here....

My dogs will act excited going for a walk with cowbells tied around their necks.....would they like it? No......would it bother them, yes......but they would still go.....

 

I think one can invest the time in teaching the dog to walk with a regular collar.......