Dog Community

Posted : 10/27/2006 5:32:10 PM

ORIGINAL: luvmyswissy

espenser,

You are the biggest proponet of Cesars Way on this board, and you are totally right with your last post. So maybe when you direct new people to follow Cesars way you could add a disclaimer as well - "don't do this at home without proper guidance" becasue pushing the web pages without the information on how to carry these techniques out is just as bad a watching the TV show for those who have problems and no clue. They will watch a video segment and then try to follow what they saw without understanding there is SO MUCH MORE to learn and know before implementing these techniques. .

You are right about that, some times i just dont stop to think that those people maybe wont get it just like those who watch the TV show

I was able to see far more behind the techniques than what the TV was showing but not everybody will do the same

glenmar

Posted : 10/27/2006 5:45:11 PM

I've gotta say that I can see perfectly why Anne would want to bow out of this particular thread. I have stayed out of it because I don't like being called names either. Treat dispensing butler/roommate comes to mind.

Regardless of the longevity of the member ALL should be treated with respect. That isn't happening with Anne. I'm not saying you have to agree with what she says, but she, and everyone else deserve to be treated respectfully.

Debbie R

Posted : 10/27/2006 6:36:04 PM

Well Espencer, I think after your last post there may be hope for you, I mean in the way you communicated your thoughts and feelings w/o attacking, and I think that it's coming through this forum and particularly through Anne. This is why I like to see these threads keep going.
I don't mean that you agreeing w/ Cesar is wrong or gone, only that you are able to see a different point of view, as most of us are in that we all agree Cesar really loves and cares about dogs.

Trev El

Posted : 10/27/2006 7:03:57 PM

OK everyone, let's not overdramatize things here. All I wanted to do was talk about the new DW episodes as they premier on Monday nights. I thought it would make for an interesting thread. I have absolutley no problem with anyone disagreeing with CM's handling as long as they have actually seen the particular show that's being discussed and they offer an alternative solution, rather than just spouting off exagerated claims of bullying, hanging, hitting and kicking. I think we could all learn something through discussion and debate. Have a nice weekend and if you catch the show Monday night, be sure to come back here and talk about it!

ron2

Posted : 10/27/2006 7:21:10 PM

And I think that if there was a show with nothing but +R, not a shh, not a scruff, not a chance of using the equipment the owner had, there would still be problems implementing some techniques from that show. Never underestimate the ability of people to draw the wrong conclusion from a show. Example, shhh is not a magical sound. It is a marker that is coupled with proper stance and attitude to stop an unwanted behavior. One doesn't work without the two others.

In a +R show, one might get the wrong sense of timing a click or a treat, try it at home and wind up with a dog that barks for a treat. Either type of show should lead people to seek more education on training and contact a trainer or behaviorist near them, if need be. And what would be important in either show is the fact that it is the humans doing things wrong. The dog is acting in a doggy way, in response to the environment.

luvmyswissy

Posted : 10/27/2006 7:57:06 PM

I am watching the re-run of last Mondays show right now and the Banjo segmant was amazing.

Best of all, that "pink" woman (Kitten) and her "pink" house and her "pink" Malease (Kisses) what a hoot!![:-][

][8|]

Angelique

Posted : 10/27/2006 9:33:56 PM

Regarding the prong collar on Banjo:

The dog was familiar with this collar being used on him. Since Cesar was a new person interacting with him, an immediate change in collar during the episode may have been an additional "stressor", which can become accumulative...especially with an insecure, nervous, and socially "handicapped" dog.

Cesar did a good job with body language communication in order to keep the dog's stress and insecurity levels to a minimum.

First things first. [

]

I would start by working with the social dynamic between dog and owner and gradually modify the tools as I saw fit.

Susan Robertson

Posted : 10/28/2006 8:40:34 AM

Regardless of the longevity of the member ALL should be treated with respect. That isn't happening with Anne. I'm not saying you have to agree with what she says, but she, and everyone else deserve to be treated respectfully.

That is true, but remember it works both ways. I do think longevity has a huge role in who here is valued and defended repeatedly. Some of us, myself included, are always enduring threads about being "groupies", "dog stranglers", and NEVER defended by anyone. I surely don't need defending, but it amazes me how some people are always the poor victim and never seen as the firestarter or inflamer that start the arguements in the first place. This thread was about the 3rd season opener. Then came a remark with a lot of undertone sarcasm that just begs to be replied to.

Sometimes even a subtle eye-roll can be construed as a passive aggressive gesture. I wish this would stop on both sides of the fence. If you watched the season opener, then you can comment about that. But, I sure wish all threads here were re-read before anyone is defended and made the victim.

snownose

Posted : 10/28/2006 8:56:29 AM

Did you guys notice the look on his face when he was sitting across the woman with the pink dog?

She was babbling on and I swear it looked like he was going to bust out laughing a couple of times.

Why on earth would you turn your dog pink?
That apartment alone was giving me a headache.[

]

luvmyswissy

Posted : 10/28/2006 8:58:30 AM

Regarding the prone collar I don't think it mattered to Cesar becasue there was no need to utilize it. It was just a collar to him and the dog was use to its feel.

I don't know if he adjusted it later but when he first put it on Banjo in the crate it was loose and and fitted incorrectly.

UndefinedMelody

Posted : 10/28/2006 8:59:29 AM

I watched some episodes last night with the shopping cart aggressive rott, the rott/GSD mix that was going to be put down, and i watched another episode about the GSD chasing his tail and I have to say that I was happy to see Cesar (on both segments) show the owners how to use a Prong collar. On the old season I was seeing him many times just let them use it down around the shoulders, but on these episodes he told them exactly where to put it and made sure they used it that way.

glenmar

Posted : 10/28/2006 9:14:22 AM

[8|] Is THIS what you call the eye rolling icon? I use that for my old fart icon. I have gone back and read the entire thread and did so before I ever posted. I was not attempting to make Anne into a victim and I doubt that she feels that she is one. However, being called names is not fun. And not called for.

espencer

Posted : 10/28/2006 9:42:59 AM

ORIGINAL: glenmar

[8|] Is THIS what you call the eye rolling icon? I use that for my old fart icon. I have gone back and read the entire thread and did so before I ever posted. I was not attempting to make Anne into a victim and I doubt that she feels that she is one. However, being called names is not fun. And not called for.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooo like we were saying, in the last episode you can see Cesar aprouching Banjo in a way that wont be scary for him which i think was a good idea, he said the other dogs were having also some kind of fearfull level too, maybe the owners were nurture that a lot

kennel_keeper

Posted : 10/28/2006 12:50:30 PM

I was impressed with CM patience and compassion he presented with Banjo. It's obvious that he DOES have a level of comprehension when it comes to the canine psychy. He was willing to go at the dogs "pace", but yet let Banjo know that he was not to be feared, while still being in control of the situation.

kpwlee

Posted : 10/28/2006 1:53:21 PM

I just saw that episode and that was awesome - Banjo was so fearful and detached (rightfully so) and regardless of how long it really took (he mentioned it was several hours) it was wonderful to see that dog's recovery. I thought the couple was great, the neighbor and CM.
It was inspiring to see that Banjo was helped so significantly.

Dog Whisperer Season 3