How Far Are You Willing to Go?

Rape is a crime of control, not sex. And it still does not change the fact that women have the control over sex. Although, I'm not sure how you drew rape out of my statement. The tone of your reply hints to me that you wish to draw exception with what I've stated. But, so be it. Just because a woman is raped does not mean she no longer has control. In fact, the surest way to help a victim is to help her re-establish her control of her own life.
 
And I know you want to say that I'm talking out of my hat. Fine. My wife was a victim of aggravated sexual assault from a paroled convict with a long history of violent crime, including attempted murder. Her testimony put him in prison in 1989. He was on parole a few years ago. Violated, went back to prison, and we've just received notification from the state that he won't be eligible for parole for a few years and, more than likely, he will serve his entire sentence plus 2 more years for parole violation. I know what the aftermath of such a thing is and I deal with it.
 
But I can't see a way in which any of this detracts from my statement. Did you have a particular point in mind?

ORIGINAL: fisher6000

I know this is totally OT, but what is rape then, Ron? A veto?

LOL!  As I read Ron's post, I was wondering if he had ever heard of rape, too. 

Women do not control sex in our culture.  If they did, I don't think porn, rape, and other sex crimes would be prevalent.  Your wife may control the sex in your marriage, but that's not the case with all marriages, Ron.  

And you're missing my point. And making assumptions about my marriage, as compared to what, yours?
 
I think this has gone OT long enough and I'll step out of it.
 

ORIGINAL: ron2

And you're missing my point. And making assumptions about my marriage, as compared to what, yours?

I think this has gone OT long enough and I'll step out of it.

 In your previous post, you made it clear how you felt about sex and women.  I did and still do assume it reflects aspects of your own marriage.  Why else would you post something you feel strongly about, especially if it were contrary to how you live?

I think I know what the problem is. You think I resent that women control sex (rape and other crimes of control or aggression aside) because I stated that women control the sex. I do not. I simply stated it as fact. Even in a loving marriage, if the guy wants it and the wife doesn't, it ain't happenin'. To that fact, I will reiterate that using a wife's affection as a "treat" seems, to me, to diminish the wife's say so in the process of "correcting" the man that looks at porn. ETA: I think most women would say to either quit that or I'm leaving or some such other ultimatum or correction. Not bribery.

The only thing I could think if is that, since I didn't say that women controlling sex bothered me or didn't bother me, you simply assumed that it bothered me, which it doesn't. I thought I was stating fact and you mistook it as resentment, I suppose.

Wow!  I stepped away for a couple of hours and what happened?[8|]

Perfect example of a good thread gone bad!! [:-]   Disappointing [X(]

aint that the truth
 

sorry I feel like I started it... it was a rhetorical question.

If it helps any, I won't respond in this thread anymore, as I can't seem to get a point across, even as I am trying to point out how empowered women are and shouldn't be viewed as "treats" my point gets lost in assumptions and a desire to "debate."
 
And I regret bringing the point I had made and even relayed some personal information to show that I have some insight, and that wasn't good enough. And I'm sorry if I have contributed to the acrimony in this thread.
 

FWIW, I think you were being pretty thoughtful... it's just waaaayyyy OT.

ORIGINAL: mrv

Respectfully, I will accept your statement that it wont end badly after you have spent time at an HIC test of atleast 30 dogs including: ACDs, Aussies, Belgians, and GSDs.   Been there done that (shifting stock, helping with tough dogs, manning the gate, etc.)  when prey drive kicks in and bidibility has not been tested, it is a whole different story than walking by a pasture.

I offered this specific example to get folks to think about reenforcers and what is at your disposal as a human being when your dog has already found the "Big Ticket" reenforcer all by himself.

mrv, I'm with you.  Sioux is a very biddable dog, and did pretty well her first time on sheep, but I can tell you that it was immediately apparent that a little "switch" had gone off in her head that told her that she had found the "big ticket" item LOL.  Thankfully, a lot of training was already installed in her little brain and she handled it very well.  I just wish the darn trainer hadn't moved away. 

ron, for gosh sake - it was *humor*, not serious, no a sane persone wouldn't use a woman as a liver treat, I already tried to stop the OT posting, couldn't we move that to NDR? [sm=uhoh.gif]

I too live a country setting with a neighbor who has chickens and goat and..  a couple of nice dogs.  River was a bit interested and did try and chase the chickens when they would come down into our yard, but either my DH or I were out there and could call him off.  He had only a so, so recall at the time and always stop chasing but was reluctant to come away as quickly as I would have liked.
 
We ended up purchasing and training on invisable fence[] surrounding our 3 acreas of property. 
 
I couldn't comment on the scenario mentioned but my guess is he wouldn't know who to chase first.  He is a hearding breed, I wonder what he would do?

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

Angelique, it was just a figure of speech and meant to be humorous.  I have a degree in Psychology, so the sexual addiction thing is not lost on me.  But, this is really getting way too blue and off topic, wouldn't you say?

eley, I agree with you that people are teaching positive training (and other methods) incorrectly.  That is a problem, but it doesn't mean the method doesn't work if properly applied, as I'm sure you agree.  What bothers me the most is that there are quite a few people on this forum who don't truly understand how it works (but think they do) and are quick to disagree with it, but have never tried it (correctly applied).  They thus have no way to appropriately judge whether it would have worked for their dog, or their situation.  I find that very sad for the dogs.

I completely agree, and as I've said before, most people are not willing to admit that there are way other than the ones they know that work. People find a comfort zone which they don't move away from, thus becoming closed minded to anything that deviates from what they know to work. I believe one of the saddest things a person can do is to stop learning, the fact that you MAY not have the use for something new doesn't mean you shouldn't take the time to make an honest effort to understand it, otherwise, how can you honestly and truly know wether or not it will work for your situation?. It has been said time and again, there is no ONE universal method that will fit ALL situations, YES you will ALWAYS be able to find situations for which something will not work, that does NOT make the entire philosophy crack and fall from the ground up.

Sorry to bring this up again,but i've only just read the last couple of pages of this thread just now. Ron you say women control the sex,but how can that be if they get raped,they have no control,right? If my OH was so inclined he could force me to have sex quite easily if he wanted to,however if i wanted it,and he didnt,there would be nothing i could do about it.I know people say men can get raped,but i have real trouble believing this,for the "obvious" reason.
I think your opinion is that men have sex on the brain 24/7 and women dont,therefore they have the control,because they say no, more often than yes,well at least i do,anyways[] The man cant get the green light until the woman says so(in most cases) which puts her in control.