Please help me, this is getting out of hand!

    • Bronze

    Please help me, this is getting out of hand!

    I have a miniature schnauzer named Astro; he#%92s about 11 months now. I have one other schnauzer and he is very aggressive towards him. I love Astro very much but it#%92s like he has a split personality, times he is sweet and lovable, other times he is mean and angry! And I don#%92t really know what to do about it. Lately he is extremely destructive, and hostile to me, my friends, and Tigger (the other schnauzer). It is starting to scare me; my motivation to seek help on the internet was inspired just moments ago when Astro jumped into my face and bit my nose. Im at a loss! Please someone help me!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Welcome to the forum.
     
    Regarding the issue between the dogs, I would let them work it out amongst themselves.  Their proper status needs to be established and unless they draw blood figuring this out, I think it is best to let them do it without interference.
     
    I am not exactly sure what you mean by "extremely destructive."  I am going to assume you mean he chews inappropriate items.  This one is simple.  Crate him when you can't supervise him.  Puppies are going to chew.  What you need to do is to control WHAT he chews.  Of course, you should have a number of toys that it is okay for him to chew on so you can redirect his inappropriate chewing when you are supervising him.
     
    Please describe the hostile behavior.
    • Silver
    ORIGINAL: probe1957
    Regarding the issue between the dogs, I would let them work it out amongst themselves.  Their proper status needs to be established and unless they draw blood figuring this out, I think it is best to let them do it without interference.

     
    That's true in most social settings, where the dogs don't have to live together.  My PitBull puppy LOVES other dogs, but when she's around ones her own age, there's often displays of dominance from both her and the strange dog during playtime.  I let the dogs work it out themselves... establishing social structure is a natural part of a dog's life.  She established a great relationship with her doggie friend Ollie this way.   HOWEVER, when you have 2 dogs that need to live together, you might want to intervene, but in subtle ways.  Now that you have two dogs, both need you to be the pack leader, or they will continue trying to fight it out amongst themselves, and potentially fight with you as well.  Decide which dog you want to be the boss... probably your older dog.  Feed that dog first (if there's food agression issues, crate the other dog during feeding time), encourage the older dog to walk behind you but in front of the older dog, always greet and pat the older dog first.  These are subtle cues that establish the pack order, and by doing that YOU become the leader of the pack, not either one of the dogs.  It should make your younger dog respect the older one, as well as you.
     
    That being said, I don't know the severity of your situation.  I have several friends with more than one dog, and they've all handled the situation in this manner and it has worked great for everyone I know.  But if you really think that your dog might hurt you or your other dog, you may need professional help.  Talk to your vet, he/she can recommend someone who specializes in severe behavior problems.
     
     
    • Bronze
    [link>http://forum.dog.com/asp/showProfile.asp?memid=13550]probe1957[/link] By extremely destructive, I mean that he is chewing things he isn#%92t supposed to regardless of the toys he has, new and old. He stopped chewing things for awhile, and he was doing wonderful about chewing his toys. But now he is tearing up my furniture, my text books, my bed sheets etc.
    The hostile behavior: I try to socialize him every chance I get, from having neighbors come over to taking him on walks and car rides but when friends come over he growls and shows his teeth. When we go out in public he growls and shows his teeth. He tries to pick fights with Tigger (the older dog) and its not just playing; Astro will terrorize Tigger and on a few occasions has bit the blood.
     
    [link>http://forum.dog.com/asp/showProfile.asp?memid=22733]alisiaj78[/link] thank you for the tips, I will most definitely put those into effect immediately.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: alisiaj78

    That's true in most social settings, where the dogs don't have to live together.  My PitBull puppy LOVES other dogs, but when she's around ones her own age, there's often displays of dominance from both her and the strange dog during playtime.  I let the dogs work it out themselves... establishing social structure is a natural part of a dog's life.  She established a great relationship with her doggie friend Ollie this way.   HOWEVER, when you have 2 dogs that need to live together, you might want to intervene, but in subtle ways.  Now that you have two dogs, both need you to be the pack leader, or they will continue trying to fight it out amongst themselves, and potentially fight with you as well.  Decide which dog you want to be the boss... probably your older dog.  Feed that dog first (if there's food agression issues, crate the other dog during feeding time), encourage the older dog to walk behind you but in front of the older dog, always greet and pat the older dog first.  These are subtle cues that establish the pack order, and by doing that YOU become the leader of the pack, not either one of the dogs.  It should make your younger dog respect the older one, as well as you.

    That being said, I don't know the severity of your situation.  I have several friends with more than one dog, and they've all handled the situation in this manner and it has worked great for everyone I know.  But if you really think that your dog might hurt you or your other dog, you may need professional help.  Talk to your vet, he/she can recommend someone who specializes in severe behavior problems.

     
    Its true that they need a leader, but YOU have to be the leader, DONT let them choose because the leader will bite you again since they will see you as follower, you can have a pack where you are number 1 and everyone else is number 2, NO number 3 or 4, if you want to they dont have to fight to see who will be 2nd, establishing social structure is a natural part of a dog's life when the pack leader let that happen but you dont have to
    • Gold Top Dog
    I'd recommend two books.  One is "How to Be the Leader of the Pack and Have Your Dog Love You for It" and the other is "Feeling Outnumbered? How to Manage and Enjoy Your Multi-Dog Household".  Both are by Patricia McConnell, Ph.D.  You can get them on her website, [linkhttp://www.dogsbestfriendtraining.com]www.dogsbestfriendtraining.com[/link]. 
    • Silver
    ORIGINAL: espencer

    ORIGINAL: alisiaj78

     HOWEVER, when you have 2 dogs that need to live together, you might want to intervene, but in subtle ways.  Now that you have two dogs, both need you to be the pack leader, or they will continue trying to fight it out amongst themselves, and potentially fight with you as well.  Decide which dog you want to be the boss... probably your older dog.  Feed that dog first (if there's food agression issues, crate the other dog during feeding time), encourage the older dog to walk behind you but in front of the older dog, always greet and pat the older dog first.  These are subtle cues that establish the pack order, and by doing that YOU become the leader of the pack, not either one of the dogs.  It should make your younger dog respect the older one, as well as you.



    Its true that they need a leader, but YOU have to be the leader, DONT let them choose because the leader will bite you again since they will see you as follower, you can have a pack where you are number 1 and everyone else is number 2, NO number 3 or 4, if you want to they dont have to fight to see who will be 2nd, establishing social structure is a natural part of a dog's life when the pack leader let that happen but you dont have to

     
    I think we're agreeing here, right?  Just wanted to make sure that I'm not sending mixed messages.  Letting dogs "sort it out for themselves" works in social settings like the dog park, or a friends house, AS LONG AS each dog involved recognizes their respective owners as the final authority (and, of course, aren't being truely agressive towards eachother!).  In a situation with dogs living together in a household, the owner of the two dogs must establish the pack order, NOT let the dogs decide for themselves.
    • Silver
    ORIGINAL: beachbumm

    [link>http://forum.dog.com/asp/showProfile.asp?memid=13550]probe1957[/link] By extremely destructive, I mean that he is chewing things he isn't supposed to regardless of the toys he has, new and old. He stopped chewing things for awhile, and he was doing wonderful about chewing his toys. But now he is tearing up my furniture, my text books, my bed sheets etc.

     
    Well, that part sounds typical for a dog his age.  There's a couple of great threads about chewing problems under the "problems and habits" section.  I came on here looking for advice on that, too.  My 7-mo old puppy kept destroying everything, after I had thought that faze was over.  Turns out the adolecent chewing faze is much worse than the puppy-teething faze.  I kept coming home and punishing my dog for chewing on things (books, curtains, cell ;phone, door frame, clothes, basically anything she could reach).  ;People on the forum convinced me I was going about it the wrong way.  We got an ex-pen for the kitchen, so now she doesn't have the option to chew on anything but her toys.  Result:  puppy is learning appropriate chewing behavior, while my stuff is kept safe.   
    • Puppy
    Beachbum,
    Could you tell us more about when the dog is agressive towards you and other people? Is he sitting in a certain place? Are you approaching him to give affection? do you walk him regularly and you could tell us about it.

    Our newest rescue displayed some similair behavior. We havn't had her do it in several weeks now since we changed a few things. She slept in a crate for the last few weeks because if she was woken up by petting her she would growl. She ended up sleeping on the bed last night by mistake (we fell asleep before crating her) and when I put my hand on her in the middle of the night she wagged her tail, a big differance from before. When approached on a dog bed in the living room she would growl and snap. It was always to give her affection. I removed the bed for a few days and when I put it back everyone was told to call her to them to give affection. If I wanted her off the bed I would grab her collar and lead her off. She hasn't growled at anyone since these changes.

    That your small dog was able to bite you on the nose tells me you were putting your face near her and I'm guessing you approached her to do it.

    I also see it has been several days since the OP logged in so we will see if this post gets a response but I doubt it. I think letting others know what we have gone through could still be helpful.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Beachbum enroll the dogs in obedience training.  Especially the alpha dog...you need to become the alpha dog and not let the dogs rule you.  Are these dogs fixed?  Part of your problem could be that one or both are intact.  you need to teach these dogs acceptable behavior.  If the obedience training doesn't work then try finding a behaviorist.  Just because you attend obedience classes doesn't mean that you don't practice at home.  You will need to train at home as well as at class.  You may wish to put the agressive dog on a leash and leash correct him for negative behaior but for every positive behavior you should praise and possibly treat him.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: alisiaj78
    I think we're agreeing here, right?  Just wanted to make sure that I'm not sending mixed messages.  Letting dogs "sort it out for themselves" works in social settings like the dog park, or a friends house, AS LONG AS each dog involved recognizes their respective owners as the final authority (and, of course, aren't being truely agressive towards eachother!).  In a situation with dogs living together in a household, the owner of the two dogs must establish the pack order, NOT let the dogs decide for themselves.

     
    We are agreeing almost the same [:)], the only difference is that i would not choose one of the dogs to have a higher level in the pack than the other, all of them have to be second, there should not be 3rd or 4th because they still would fight to have the highest level after you [;)]
    • Puppy
    You can be the leader but they are going to work out the rest of the hierarchy for themselves. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: richard_dragin

    You can be the leader but they are going to work out the rest of the hierarchy for themselves. 


    And thats why there still will be fights between them, a pack doesnt need to have a hierarchy, you can be first and the rest second, no 3rd, no 4th, just 1st and 2nd ones, a pack is not the British royal family that has levels and turns to be king
    • Silver
    ORIGINAL: espencer

    ORIGINAL: richard_dragin

    You can be the leader but they are going to work out the rest of the hierarchy for themselves. 


    And thats why there still will be fights between them, a pack doesnt need to have a hierarchy, you can be first and the rest second, no 3rd, no 4th, just 1st and 2nd ones, a pack is not the British royal family that has levels and turns to be king

     
    Interesting... I had always thought it was supposed to be the way Richard is describing... that treating all dogs as equals would LEAD to fighting, because they still have the natural instinct to try and create a hierarchy on their own.  I'm planning on getting a second dog in the future (although not until my dog is around 2 yrs), so I'm curious on the best way... have each of you owned more than 1 dog?  I'd like to know how different people have done it in the past, and how it has worked out in each situation.
     
    Note also that my dog is very dominant.  I would want a second dog to be more naturally submissive and encourage their respective dominant/submissive roles to avoid fighting.  I think that if I had a second dog that was also very dominant, and treated them as equals, they would fight.  Does this make sense?
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: alisiaj78

    Interesting... I had always thought it was supposed to be the way Richard is describing... that treating all dogs as equals would LEAD to fighting, because they still have the natural instinct to try and create a hierarchy on their own.  I'm planning on getting a second dog in the future (although not until my dog is around 2 yrs), so I'm curious on the best way... have each of you owned more than 1 dog?  I'd like to know how different people have done it in the past, and how it has worked out in each situation.

    Note also that my dog is very dominant.  I would want a second dog to be more naturally submissive and encourage their respective dominant/submissive roles to avoid fighting.  I think that if I had a second dog that was also very dominant, and treated them as equals, they would fight.  Does this make sense?

     
    It makes sense, bringing a submissive dog to avoid fights instead a dominant one, yes you will have less problems between them, however, the problems will be between you and the dominant dog, he will fell you are also part of the pack and will try to make you the follower too, the natural instinct is being submissive, there is a couple that would try to take the lead but if they have a strong leader their own mind will tell them to accept it at the end, all of them rather to be submissive but if there is not a clear leader they will step up, if there is a leader already they will be happy with that (less "stress" for them [;)]) but like i said, they have to feel that the leader is capable to have a well balanced pack, if they think the leader is weak then they will step up (if they have a dominance trend) to the plate for the good of the pack, other dogs that were not born to be dominant will come up with other problems because they feel they dont have a leader