Please help me, this is getting out of hand!

Alisia,
We have always had two dogs and my personal experiance confirms what I have learned from reading and working with a behaviorist.

My wife and I sometimes work long hours and we feel better knowing we are not leaving a dog home alone for all that time. She always wants everything to be fair between them but they don't care about what is fair. From the second we introduced our very dominant Bella to her new younger companion Macie the hierarchy was set. A very out of control Macie ran up to Bella who growled and snapped at the back of her neck. Macie immediately calmed down and gave her space ( I automatically "barked" at Bella who backed off  also). The behaviorist who was there smiled and said "perfect, now everyone knows who is who" and he was right, we never have had another problem.

The two of them play and Bella let's Macie win some of the time and they have a very strong bond. They will compete for food, toys and affection but without fighting. All this from two female Pits.

'd recommend two books. One is "How to Be the Leader of the Pack and Have Your Dog Love You for It" and the other is "Feeling Outnumbered? How to Manage and Enjoy Your Multi-Dog Household". Both are by Patricia McConnell, Ph.D. You can get them on her website, www.dogsbestfriendtraining.com.

I have to BIGTIME agree with Anne on this. These books are fantastic - please do get them. They will change how you think about and deal with your dogs.

Richard and espencer...
I think the examples you're both providing show that this sort of situation may need to be handled differently depending on the dogs AND the owners involved.  It sounds like in Beachbumm's case he (she?  sorry, it's hard to tell people's genders from screen names!) hadn't already established a strong pack-leader relationship with his first dog... which didn't seem to be a problem, but maybe the dog was naturally submissive.  Now that there's a new, more dominant dog, the lack of a strong human leader started causing problems, mainly that the new dog thought it could boss around both it's owner and the older dog.   Richard's dog already saw him as a strong leader, and this helped to avoid serious confrontation with the new dog.
 
I think that two naturally submissive dogs with a strong human leader could potentially be treated as equals, as espencer suggests, and if there was a submissive dog brought into the house with a dominant dog who new his place BEHIND the human leader, the pack order would be naturally established without the owner needing to do much to enforce it.  But I do think that with either two dominant dogs, or a dominant dog coming into a house that already has a submissive dog, stronger human intervention is needed.  Any thoughts?  And, Beachbumm, have any of the suggestions here helped out in your situation?

Is funny bt a posted a quote from Cesar Millan in another thread and that same quote can be used here:
 
"Bringing Home a Newly Adopted Dog
In my work, I get to meet the most wonderful people and I try not to be too hard on them when they are my clients, but usually I#%92m telling them exactly what they don#%92t want to hear – that they are usually the reason for their dog#%92s problems and they need to change the way they relate to their dogs for their own good.
It is hard to resist wanting to spoil a new pet, especially if you have just adopted a homeless animal. Owners will bring their new friend home, constantly hug the dog, stroke the dog, bring the dog to bed with them, and tell it, “It#%92s all right. You#%92re safe now.”
The problem is the dog doesn#%92t feel safe at all. It will sense it is with a person who doesn#%92t have a “plan,” knowing that they are not with an assertive leader. One of two things will happen: The dog will develop an issue stemming from that insecurity –or existing issues will get worse–or the dog will immediately take the leadership position so that at least someone is in charge! Remember that the majority of shelter dogs are already stressed and nervous or afraid and can become aggressive if they don#%92t feel they have that strong, calm-assertive leader at their sides.
In the wild, when a new dog joins an existing pack, they already have a position for it. It will either be a leader or follower. The new dog knows what#%92s expected of him, and what to expect. Most people don#%92t have such a plan, and when a dog finds himself in front of owners who do not assert themselves correctly, the dog is going to create the plan for them.
The right way to bring a rescued dog into your home involves understanding the leadership role. The first thing you must do upon leaving the kennel or shelter is to take the dog for a walk. This will rid him of some of his anxious energy. Resist the urge to coddle it. Affection must come later, when the leadership role is fully established. And don#%92t worry that you are hurting the dog#%92s feelings by withholding affection. You are not. The most important thing it needs to know is where it belongs in the new pack."

Espenser,
 
Thank you for taking the time to type out portions of Cesar's Way for everyone to read. I appreciate the time it takes to do this.
 
I actually understand the points both you and Richard are making to try and help. My bottom line is similar. I am the Pack Leader of all dogs within my household in all situations. Aggression is not allowed between any dogs or towards humans. All of the humans are above the dogs as leaders. In any group of dogs there will always be one who is more dominant by nature to a certain degree. But again, agression is not allowed and this must be communicated clearly to the dog who is behaving in an aggressive manner so that they do not cross the line of a warning.
 
Dogs do use warnings to communicate with each other, which I do not have a problem with. However, these warning should not be tolerated if they are directed at the humans. Addressing a dog's inappropriate behavior is not the same as suppressing an inappropriate behavior. It simply has to be done with an asserive attitude rather than an angry one. Clear communication with eye contact, a verbal boundary, and body language with attitude usually works quickly in a manner dogs have no problem understanding, but it is hard to teach over the net.
 
Walking dogs together parallel to each other where they are not allowed to pull or move ahead of the owners is also a great daily exercise to establish leadership, get the dogs working together, and take the dog's energy level down so there is less aggression in the form of frustration. I use this technique a lot and have personally been able to take a dog which was lounging and snapping at my dog to playing with my dog within fifteen minutes of them meeting each other. My dog's stable influence is also helpful when working with unbalanced dogs who are usually a lot less work than their owners.
 
I'm sorry there isn't someone there to help in person and evalute the interactions of the owners and dogs first-hand. A bahaviorist who uses Cesar's philosophies and methods or something similar would be my best recommendation.

I have read many books from Cesar to Pryor and many articles etc.  And there is definitely a mix of opinion as it relates to hierarchy within a pack.  Most of what I have read seem to point to Wolf/dog packs do have a hierarchy within a pack.  Not a strong one, but the submission stay quite and the leadership dogs take rungs on the latter.  However, many trainers believe that hierarchy in a human pack is not necessary and all dogs should be equally subordinate.  I have also read that opinion that suggest if you have dogs who fight for hierarchy you should treat the dominate dog as higher than the other and this will keep your pack calm.
 
HOWEVER, in my personal experience.  My oldest dog became the leader of the dogs when I brought two new pups into his world.  He showed both that he meant business.  Although he permitted playing etc, he stopped it just as fast.  As for the two pups, one came to us one month before the other, our Pug first and Swissy next and our Pug took leadership over the Swissy.  And to this day (with our older dog deceased) our Pug will put our Swissy in his place 1, 2, 3 and my Swissy is a confident, dominate working dog who always tried to pull rank with us human leaders early on, but never with his sister – melts into subordiance!

I have a pack of dogs[]
 
Within the pack there is a very dominant German Shep., 7 years old. When the last rescue arrived there were several stare downs, growling and so on. It is under control now, I am the leader and there are no leaders within the pack........life is pretty peaceful.

It's interesting, but the "packs" in which a human is the clear leader often have fewer fights.  But, humans, even when they are practicing good leadership techniques, can still have problems arise between dogs who are vying for status.  The biggest problem is that humans are often unaware which dog is the real natural leader.  A truly dominant dog does *not* often display "wannabe" behaviors, like humping & clasping.  A leader often shares his toys (he can have them back anytime, usually with just a glance).  The leader dog may likely be the first one to the door when company comes.  The danger is that if you "support" the wrong dog, you actually create more disharmony than you cure.
Having a large pack of all male dogs, a la Cesar Millan, is not as great an accomplishment as it might first seem.  Male dogs seldom fight for keeps - their fights are most ritualistic.  I would be more impressed with someone who had a pack of females who all got along - if you haven't heard it from a breeder or trainer before, you're hearing it here...bitch fights are the worst.  They sometimes do fight until one dog is heavily damaged, or worse. 
If you are going to have multiple dogs, it pays to learn about the ways in which you can try to insure maximum harmony.  One interesting book is "Feeling Outnumbered?  How to Manage and Enjoy Your Multidog Household" by Patricia McConnell, and "Multiple Dogs", a new DVD, from Tawzer Dog Videos, by Trish King.
Dogs that vary widely in age, or are of different gender and size often do better together, although keeping small dogs with very large dogs is a risk.  (Yes, I do have a Yorkie with all these bigger dogs, but I still know it's a risk.)  I find that the most problems come when people get that second dog before the first one is mature, or they get dogs of like gender and similar temperament.  Getting a slightly smaller, more submissive dog of opposite gender is probably the most sensible thing for newbies who want to create a multiple dog household.