dog aggression-Please help

animal lover33: 

Even if you think this is fighting over becoming alpha female, remember that bitch fights seldom end well.  In most cases it is somewhat manageble, but only if the two females are not out together.  This is the case with many, many breeds-not just pitties.  My breeder and friend has two female pharaoh hounds that want to kill each other.  They were raised together and were fine...all until one day.  Now they not only want to kill each other, but there are alliances formed in the pack.  The "blue team" can't go out when the "red team" is outside...

You need to be prepared to manage this aggression for life. 

I totally agree with you that if your dog is not well socialized as a puppy, they will be aggressive with other dogs. However Angel is well socialized with other dogs, she just doesn't like precious or dogs that are more dominent then her, and precious is. Angel wants to be the alpha of the pack. That may be something I can fix with her or I cant. Hopefully spaying will make her more calmer to see If I can fix it.

Bringing your dog to a dog park or any social dog gathering without expecting a conflict is utterly stupid. You might have your dog trained to it's full capacity, and then here comes trouble in the form of a NOT so socialized animal...........body language alone can bring a fight.
 
If you don't want a conflict between your dog and another, don't let your dog run loose without close supervision or maybe not even off the leash..............

In my experience with bitch-bitch fights, and this is cockers, not a dog that for hundreds of years has been bred to fight and to kill,  the fight is NOT about alpha status, and it's a vicious fight, much more so than with the boys.
 
I have SIX german shepherds.  We don't have fights, and we certainly don't have fights that would send anyone to the vet.  Much of this, yes, is the way they were raised, but a good part of it is their temperments and the fact that they were originally bred to herd sheep, not to kill one another.  Now I can stand and watch for hours when they are playing because they will "herd" one another and it's funny to watch.  However, all that said, I have large and very powerful animals and if I hear the slightest altercation starting I intercede.  Normally "that will do" or "cut the crap" is all it takes.  My most alpha defers to me and stops because I am the leader of my pack.  And no one challenges me for top dog status.
 
This samitting thing.....forcing a dog into a down and then holding her there??  Not only is that dangerous, it's also counter productive.  When I put my dogs in a down, they STAY in a down because that's what they've been taught to do, and not because anyone FORCES them to stay down.  When you force anything, you are actually lowering your status as leader because a TRUE leader doesn't have to force anything.
 
Not long ago we were on a walk in town and a little lab pup started following us....frolicking and romping as pups will.  I handed over the lead of the dog I was walking to DH, told both dogs to sit and returned the pup to the home it had "escaped" from.  I returned to two dogs sitting patiently and waiting for me.  They did as they were told because they have been TRAINED to do as they are told...they know that complying with my requests pleases me, and they want to please me.  They are not afraid that I'm going to turn into a bully and suddenly sit on them or force them into a down and hold them there....they obey because pleasing ME, the leader, is important to them.  Because all good things come from ME.
 
You have a pittie mix.....not a carefully bred pit from outstanding lines.  And gosh, even the most correctly bred pittie can suddenly hit the "switch".  And rather than work with her inherent weaknesses, you're bullying and samitting her all over the place and teaching BOTH bitches that bad things happen when they are near one another and that the other, by golly, IS the enemy and worthy of a good butt kicking.  Congratulations.  Because you refuse to accept the inherent weakness in your girl, you are teaching TWO dogs to want to damage one another.  Good job.
 
You need to pull your head out of the sand and educate yourself on pitties, and on dogs in general...the true alpha doesn't need to fight to maintain his pack status and you need to learn how to be an effective leader if you are going to have so many dogs in your home.

Animal_lover, I believe you said this is not your first pit?  If that is the case and with all due respect, I am shocked that you aren't more knowledgeable about the breed.  I am flummoxed that you seem unwilling to accept that dog aggression IS PART OF THE BREED.  Furthermore, you come here looking for a solution to a problem, then appear unwilling to accept the advice you are given.  I don't get it.
 
Go ahead and spay your bitch then feel free to check back here for advice when she kills another of your dogs.

ORIGINAL: animal_lover33
I totally agree with you that if your dog is not well socialized as a puppy, they will be aggressive with other dogs. However Angel is well socialized with other dogs, she just doesn't like precious or dogs that are more dominent then her, and precious is. Angel wants to be the alpha of the pack. That may be something I can fix with her or I cant. Hopefully spaying will make her more calmer to see If I can fix it.

 
Unfortunately, spaying females often does not have the same effect as neutering males.  Because the uterus is not removed during the spaying proccess, spayed dogs still produce estrogen, albeit in a lesser amount.  It may help, but don't expect two dogs who have decided they want to kill eachother to suddenly be friends because one is spayed.  I know a few people who own dogs who just don't get along, and they have the common sense to simply keep them separated. 
 
When you take her to get her spayed, please, talk to your vet about this problem.  He/she should be able to recommend a behavior specialist.  I know you don't want to believe that your dog has any inherent traits that make her potentially more dangerous than other breeds.  I am a pitbull owner, and am constantly defending the breed to people who don't understand why I would want "a monster".  Pitbulls are wonderful, loyal, playful dogs that make GREAT pets, but every breed has its own idiosycracies that owners need to learn how to handle.  Greyhounds are not usually a good choice for a house with no yard, terriers aren't good choices for people who have small pets like ferrets, and pitbulls are often not a good choice for households with several dogs.  That's not an across the board rule, but it sounds like it is true in your case.   If you don't want to admit that breeding might have something to do with your Pit severly injuring your other dog, then look at it this way:  Pitbulls are a preferred breed for fighting because they happen to be very good at killing other dogs.  It doesn't  sound like your dog is a killer, but the situation she's in could lead her to become one.  The way you are trying to intervene is NOT the proper way.  Keep them separated, and then get professional help.

Ummmm, any female I have ever had spayed has had ovaries AND uterus removed.......

Strange... my dog only had her ovaries removed.  She was spayed at the animal shelter, and besides the fact that they botched the job and cut her intestines (poor thing!), our vet noticed nothing unusual about the spaying job.  I have a friend who's a vet tech, and she said only the ovaries are removed... in fact, she had several stories about spayed dogs who came in pregnant because whoever did the spaying failed to remove BOTH ovaries, so of course those dogs had uteruses.  Wonder if it varies on where you get it done, or if there's state laws that govern the extent to how thorough the procedure is.

That's odd.  Over the years I've had 3 females spayed and each time it was a complete hysterectomy - everything was removed. It seems kind of strange to me to open the dog up and then leave something there.

Joyce

Wonder if it's just at the dog shelters/city pounds that they only do half the job?  Makes sense, they're essentially doing the work for free.  If you take your dog to the vet, your probably expecting a full job to be done!  Now I'm really curious, I'm going to have to call that vet-tech friend of mine for more info!!  But aren't we getting a little off topic?

Animal lover,
I think you have bigger problems than can be solved in an Internet forum or a book. You should seek proffesional help from a behaviorist. I also think what you call "submitting" them is a bit more complicated than you realize and I wouldn't do it anymore if I were you.

richard,
ya i understand that I have bigger problems that cant be solved over the internet.. but everything has seemed to settle down now as far as my dogs, I dont think precious trusted Angel after that last bite like a month ago, but ive been taking both of them out together on a leash and now they are fine to be out off of leash, Ya i still have to pay attention to their signs, making sure everything stays clean.. I just posted this cuz I wanting to know what techniques people recommended and some advice. I didnt get that many techniques, I just did the ones I was doing.

this is Angel

this is precious

Dreamy, Snickers, Thumper, Spike