Too much Aggression; please help me. or leave suggestions :(

Calming aggression is a really long road.  It's just that, calming, you can never cure it but you can train your dog to be more genital around what she is aggressive towards.  You need to find what sets off the aggression, is it just food, is your dog afraid of something, the list goes one.  My dogs aggression is set off by the fear of other dogs, she is afraid of them so she act aggressive to fend them off.  When you feed them do you feed them at the same time in the same place?  You might want to feed them in different rooms with the doors closed so they don#%92t fight over the food, open feeding may not be an option at this point and you will need to set feeding times for each dog so they don#%92t all fight over it.
 
I would strongly suggest obedience classes.  I learned so much about my dog though those classes and learned a lot about myself.  Like for example I  learned what I was doing wrong and how I was sending mixed signals to my dog at the same time my dog was learning what she needed to live a healthier life.  Walking takes practice and you need to learn how to walk one dog one a leash before you take two out, again obedience classes are great for teaching you this.
 
I wish you luck and I really hope Spiritdog comes along, she is great when it comes to these issues.

Trish King has a new video out on living with "Multiple Dogs".  You can get it at Tawzer Dog Videos.  Or, you may want to read Trish McConnell's "Feeling Outnumbered?"
It's easier to get control of interdog aggression if the dogs all perceive you as their leader.  Take them to class or learn how to practice leadership skills.  McConnell has another handy dandy little book, "How to Be the Leader of the Pack and Have Your Dog Love You For It."

I would seek proffesional help. Preferably someone who deals with behavior more than obediance.

I'd recommend you stop treating all the dogs equally. Kiki is clearly, in her mind anyway, superior to Coco; if you support her position, she may stop bullying Coco. I would also strongly recommend you feed the dogs in separate rooms or in crates or something. Let them eat in peace and stop squabbling over food.
As to the walking Kiki, well, don't let strangers touch her. It sounds like she's scared of strangers, thus the barking. There is no reason why strangers need to touch your dog, is there?

I wrote this before: The Dog Whisperer, Cesar Millan has a book out, he is also on tv. I own 4 male dogs, and I am in charge. Sounds like one of your dogs is trying to run the show and you need to take back control. I think at this point your dog does NOT accept you as the leader, and has taken on the pack leader position. Easy example would be in the wild with Wolves, the alpha male and female control a whole pack, they control when and who eats first, other pack members are not allowed to breed, the whole pack is under strict control. You must regain your leadership position or you might get bitten yourself.Hope this helps some.

ORIGINAL: richard_dragin

I would seek proffesional help. Preferably someone who deals with behavior more than obediance.

Patricia McConnell, Ph.D., is a behaviorist.  For anyone who wants to see her whole range of books: www.dogsbestfriendtraining.com

wrote this before: The Dog Whisperer, Cesar Millan has a book out, he is also on tv. I own 4 male dogs, and I am in charge. Sounds like one of your dogs is trying to run the show and you need to take back control. I think at this point your dog does NOT accept you as the leader, and has taken on the pack leader position. Easy example would be in the wild with Wolves, the alpha male and female control a whole pack, they control when and who eats first, other pack members are not allowed to breed, the whole pack is under strict control. You must regain your leadership position or you might get bitten yourself.Hope this helps some.

 
This is untrue. Keep in mind CM really knows diddly squat about pack behavior and pay no attention to his TV show. His approach is to bully and intimidate and terrrify dogs until they stop acting normally. It has nothing to do with natural dog psychology or natural pack behavior.
 
In actual fact the pack leaders don't care about squabbles between the subordinate canines, as long as everyone defers to the leader. You can be the most respected leader ever of your pack, and that won't stop your beta dog from harassing an omega dog who tries to grab a bite to eat.

What we have here is someone so concerned about her dog that she signed up to ask a question, made one post, and has not logged back on in 5 days since. So Ann's great suggestion of  McConnell is falling on deaf ears and I doubt if she won't log on in 5 days to read a thread that she started that she will be motivated to go out buy a book and read it.

And then of course Muddy who must do searches with the keyword "Cesar" has to show up for some bashing which must account for 75% of her post count.

mudpuppy wrote: In actual fact the pack leaders don't care about squabbles between the subordinate canines, as long as everyone defers to the leader. You can be the most respected leader ever of your pack, and that won't stop your beta dog from harassing an omega dog who tries to grab a bite to eat.
 
If we are to assume we are the pack leaders, and as humans we are some what more advanced than dogs, then our responsibility doesn't just end  when it comes to controlling some issues. I own 4 male dogs , and when the last rescue arrived there were stare downs from one of my German Shep.. I applied the method I learned from Cesar, worked for us. I didn't have to hurt my dog, I made it known his intimidation was not acceptable.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

This is untrue. Keep in mind CM really knows diddly squat about pack behavior and pay no attention to his TV show. His approach is to bully and intimidate and terrrify dogs until they stop acting normally. It has nothing to do with natural dog psychology or natural pack behavior.

 
Oh dear! Tsk-tsk-tsk!
 
I also highly recommend the book "Cesar's Way" by Cesar Millan. I was quite surprised when I first found his TV show. Darn! I thought this was my own little secret! But this man really understands the mind of a dog and how dogs "read" us humans. His understanding of pack behavior and true dog psychology is so different from many others who can only roject human logic and human psychology onto dogs. Go Cesar!
 
If you are looking for a behaviorist who uses Cesar's methods to help you communicate with and understand how your dog thinks, you will have to go through the International Association of Canine Professionals (IACP). They highly endorse his philosophies and methods.
 
If you are looking for a "Positive Only" clicker-and-treat trainer to condition your dog, the Association of  Pet Dog Trainers (APDT), would be the way to go. 
 
Good luck!

ORIGINAL: richard_dragin

What we have here is someone so concerned about her dog that she signed up to ask a question, made one post, and has not logged back on in 5 days since. So Ann's great suggestion of  McConnell is falling on deaf ears and I doubt if she won't log on in 5 days to read a thread that she started that she will be motivated to go out buy a book and read it.

And then of course Muddy who must do searches with the keyword "Cesar" has to show up for some bashing which must account for 75% of her post count.

sorry, i havent been on. and it's been so long.
i thank you for the suggestions and some of them were useful of help. can you find McConnell's book anywhere
in bookstores?
and does anyone know the price and all?

This is untrue. Keep in mind CM really knows diddly squat about pack behavior and pay no attention to his TV show. His approach is to bully and intimidate and terrrify dogs until they stop acting normally. It has nothing to do with natural dog psychology or natural pack behavior. In actual fact the pack leaders don't care about squabbles between the subordinate canines, as long as everyone defers to the leader. You can be the most respected leader ever of your pack, and that won't stop your beta dog from harassing an omega dog who tries to grab a bite to eat.

Agreeing with Mudpuppy. To clarify:

1. CM does in fact rely on an outmoded concept of pack behavior and hierarchy that has been replaced by better scholarship. Pack dynamics are fluid and not rigid, and pack dynamics are extremely different between groups of domesticated dogs and wolves. Domesticated dogs are a product of humans, and have evolved to work with humans in a way that wolves of course would never consider...

2. CM's television show has a warning that clearly states that you should not attempt to do what he is doing. CM's show is organized around the principles of good television, so he does things on it that you really shouldn't do with dogs, like let them bite you.

3. He does use flooding quite a bit, and flooding any animal with whatever freaks it out will cause it to either fight or flee... if fleeing is not an option and the dog is not a fighter, then the response is learned helplessness, which looks a lot like obedience but isn't. I have seen perhaps ten shows, and every single show I have seen has had at least one instance of flooding. I don't think it's a fair thing to do to an organism, and I don't think it works.

4. The leader of a group of dogs is not going to act as peacemaker because it does nothing to that alpha dog's bottom line--dogs are really good at asking what's in it for them.

That doesn't mean that humans shouldn't attempt to keep the peace... but why buy into some concept of "pack hierarchy" when *clearly* the alpha dog would certainly run the circus differently than you would? Maybe it makes more sense to act like a human and not worry so much about whether or not you're top dog...

Yes, it is more fun to bash CM than to actually contribute to a thread and give advice.

I would read McConnell and Milan and decide for yourself. Choose what works for you and ignore the haters.

1. CM does in fact rely on an outmoded concept of pack behavior and hierarchy that has been replaced by better scholarship. Pack dynamics are fluid and not rigid, and pack dynamics are extremely different between groups of domesticated dogs and wolves. Domesticated dogs are a product of humans, and have evolved to work with humans in a way that wolves of course would never consider...

In the nutrition section, people think dogs are wolves enough to want to feed them that way.


2. CM's television show has a warning that clearly states that you should not attempt to do what he is doing. CM's show is organized around the principles of good television, so he does things on it that you really shouldn't do with dogs, like let them bite you.

CM does not "let" dogs bite him. It just sometimes happens when breaking up a fight or dealing with aggression issues.

3. He does use flooding quite a bit, and flooding any animal with whatever freaks it out will cause it to either fight or flee... if fleeing is not an option and the dog is not a fighter, then the response is learned helplessness, which looks a lot like obedience but isn't. I have seen perhaps ten shows, and every single show I have seen has had at least one instance of flooding. I don't think it's a fair thing to do to an organism, and I don't think it works.

[linkhttp://www.apa.org/journals/releases/xan294323.pdf]http://www.apa.org/journals/releases/xan294323.pdf[/link]

cs work in massed presentations followed by a more paced set of exercises results in the best fear exctinction results.

4. The leader of a group of dogs is not going to act as peacemaker because it does nothing to that alpha dog's bottom line--dogs are really good at asking what's in it for them.

Why are they other dogs fighting? For rank. But they will heed the alpha.


That doesn't mean that humans shouldn't attempt to keep the peace... but why buy into some concept of "pack hierarchy" when *clearly* the alpha dog would certainly run the circus differently than you would? Maybe it makes more sense to act like a human and not worry so much about whether or not you're top dog...

I think it's okay to act like a human as long as we remember how the dog thinks.
 
ETA:
BTW, I use +R more than anything else. I hate to see unnecessary bashing and what, IMHO, are innaccuracies. It's not that I'm a big CM "fan" I just appreciate balance and considering all options and methods. Clothier has plenty of good suggestions. But, if possible, see a behaviorist in your area. That's what CM, McConnell, and Clothier would recommend.