Dog Community

Posted : 5/17/2007 2:49:13 PM

espencer:

are you sure you were doing it right while appliying "CM methods"? because for that to happen you really need to have no idea of what you are doing

mudpuppy, page 2 of this thread:

so if a CM-promoted technique works, it was done right, but if it fails to work it was mysteriously not done right?

and around and around we go.

mudpuppy

Posted : 5/17/2007 3:00:54 PM

It was a direct claim that CM's training method caused a death, which is a pretty serious assertion, and one deserving of more exploration, especially when it is made within a thread entitled "CM revisited".

I also directly claimed, and firmly believe, that one of my co-workers dogs was put down entirely due to CM's training methods. Sweet undertrained dog, owner watched the show, applied the methods, dog turned into a terrified fear-biter, dog bite owner badly on several occasions, owner had dog put down. And no espencer, I have no idea if she "applied" the methods properly cause I didn't watch her do it, I just listened in disbelief and noted the change in the dog the few times I met her before and during. So maybe, to be strictly accurate, we should say the dog's death was due to the TV show, not the methods.

DPU

Posted : 5/17/2007 3:08:08 PM

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

I also directly claimed, and firmly believe, that one of my co-workers dogs was put down entirely due to CM's training methods. Sweet undertrained dog, owner watched the show, applied the methods, dog turned into a terrified fear-biter, dog bite owner badly on several occasions, owner had dog put down. And no espencer, I have no idea if she "applied" the methods properly cause I didn't watch her do it, I just listened in disbelief and noted the change in the dog the few times I met her before and during. So maybe, to be strictly accurate, we should say the dog's death was due to the TV show, not the methods.

Please expand on this and let us know how a person who was in communication with the dog owner and actually saw the state of dog, could have help prevent this tradegy. Did the owner blatantly ignore all your advise?

espencer

Posted : 5/17/2007 3:30:15 PM

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

espencer:
are you sure you were doing it right while appliying "CM methods"? because for that to happen you really need to have no idea of what you are doing

mudpuppy, page 2 of this thread:
so if a CM-promoted technique works, it was done right, but if it fails to work it was mysteriously not done right?

and around and around we go.

And we can say exactly the same about clicker trainig [

], if i dont even "charge" the clicker and after 2 or 3 clicks i expect my dog to do something and she doesnt, should i blame clicker training for being in this case "lame" or mysteriously not working? or it was actually my fault for not knowing how to do it like it should be done?

J M

Posted : 5/17/2007 3:46:55 PM

I can pretty much bet that the dogs that I heard about and met (which I have met them all but the sheperd that was rolled, but I have seen him and knows where he lives) will meet the same fate.

As far as intervening as DPU suggested, it ain't gonna happen. I tried..but CM fans are not that easy to convince otherwise.

Believing a person over something they have seen on tele is not the way of the populace.

Sweet undertrained dog, owner watched the show, applied the methods, dog turned into a terrified fear-biter, dog bite owner badly on several occasions, owner had dog put down.

espencer

Posted : 5/17/2007 3:54:25 PM

ORIGINAL: JM

I can pretty much bet that the dogs that I heard about and met (which I have met them all but the sheperd that was rolled, but I have seen him and knows where he lives) will meet the same fate.

Last time i checked my dog was still alive

DPU

Posted : 5/17/2007 3:58:01 PM

ORIGINAL: JM

As far as intervening as DPU suggested, it ain't gonna happen. I tried..but CM fans are not that easy to convince otherwise.

Hi JM, I am from the dog rescue side so I have to ask what could have been done. I respect that you tried and if someone won't listen, well they won't listen and all you can do is try.

espencer

Posted : 5/17/2007 4:06:07 PM

ORIGINAL: JM

As far as intervening as DPU suggested, it ain't gonna happen. I tried..but CM fans are not that easy to convince otherwise.

It does not matter what kind of philosophy they have about training their dogs, is like telling a parent how to raise their kids, do you think that if i tried to convince you that CM techniques are better than the clicker you are going to change your mind? then "Clicker fans are not that easy to convince otherwise" either

spiritdogs

Posted : 5/17/2007 4:09:51 PM

I posted my personal experience with techniques similar to CM's. Not hearsay. End of story. This thread is dead as far as I'm concerned. At least I didn't bag the whole forum like one of our best members did once because of a similar comment from a forum member about the death of her dog. The idea that someone makes a comment like that, and is thanked for removing it, but then I get chastised.......you might as well have made the same comment to me. That's how that feels. This is a thread where people are supposed to be able to post what's wrong with CM - remember???? Apparently there is no part of this forum where content removed is not sacrosanct, so I guess no further commentary is necessary.

rwbeagles

Posted : 5/17/2007 4:23:26 PM

Edit: content no longer relevant.

J M

Posted : 5/17/2007 4:46:43 PM

according to you maybe...but according to me it defines the whole issue.

So now mods are going to authorize which part of a post we can or cannot address?

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Anne....the slur you just posted was totally unnecessary no matter how upset you might be. Wow. JM...that part of the post is not the one needing to be addressed, IMO.

rwbeagles

Posted : 5/17/2007 4:52:24 PM

JM...
"IMO", did that not come thru on your end?

Xerxes

Posted : 5/17/2007 5:19:25 PM

"Clicker fans are not that easy to convince otherwise" either

The difference is that most "clicker fans" came from the ranks of the traditional and/or dominance theory training fans.

espencer

Posted : 5/17/2007 5:35:39 PM

ORIGINAL: Xerxes

"Clicker fans are not that easy to convince otherwise" either

The difference is that most "clicker fans" came from the ranks of the traditional and/or dominance theory training fans.

Can you show me a reliable link where it says that? [8D]

glenmar

Posted : 5/17/2007 5:48:30 PM

Well both are corrections, i dont know what you mean by "process" but the idea is the same, to stop the behavior, now if you do something extra right after to tell the dog what to do instead then thats like i said: an "extra"

espencer, I dont necessarily use eh eh as a correction. I use it more as a preventative. Because I pay very CLOSE attention to my dogs I am normally able to stop behavior I don't want before it starts.

I have done some editing in this thread. Some of this behavior is uncalled for and if we can't act like adults, then we'll get edited.

Independent Thinking - CM revisited