Should dogs be bothered while eating?

ORIGINAL: snownose

I do not allow strange people to pet my dogs, only the ones that my dogs have met, and I expect people to keep their hands and kids in check.

My dogs don't allow strange people to pet them.  LOL.  That's the very reason that I body block people from them.  They will allow an to approach without much ado, but a child...Only a few times have children approached and been respectful enough that my dogs would condescend to them.  One time we were in PetSmart (this was before Gaia came to me) and 4 young children approached with their mother, who asked calmly if her children could say hello.  (The kids were maybe 8 and younger)  I said yes, and the children let Xerxes smell their hands and they each took a turn scratching his chin.  He then circled behind me as if to say "ok, we're done." and the children said "Thank you sir" and went about their business.  Best experience I've ever had.  And if it hadn't been for me reading Xerxes body language we would have missed out.

ORIGINAL: labcrab
When Slick is eating and I'm cooking dinner, I regularly reach into his bowl to drop in a bit of veg, or meat, or whatever.  I certainly don't HAVE to do this!  lol but I can and I do and I am NOT asking for trouble...  Some of us are more easy going than others - dogs and people alike.  I could care less if DH helps himself to my fries!  haha  In my case, it's not that I can't *get* the kids to leave the room, it's that I don't have/want to.   Not all dogs and households are the same. 

 
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it but messing with a dog's food is how people get bitten.  In my profession we end up having to kill dogs because of people's mistakes--and it *is* their mistake--all over something that was totally preventable.  OMG the dog did what was natural and suddenly it's vicious and must be killed.  Tragic and disgusting to me because they deserve better.  Some of our Dr.s won't do it, they make the people take the dog elsewhere to euth it.  I repeat, there's no good reason to have your hand in their bowl.  Dropping food into their bowl--and 'drop' was your word--is not the same.  The kids shouldn't HAVE to leave the room, if they know how to behave around dogs there shouldn't be a problem, this is especially true if the dog doesn't care all that much to begin with.  I worry about the dog who isn't allowed to express displeasure if they're unhappy, I think they're the ticking timebombs.  I believe that saying that they (mentally stable dogs) won't bite if a growl will do. 

Dogs should never be bothered while eating. In a wild pack, the lead dog would never bother the lower ranking dogs because he/she will always eat it's fill and walk away so there is  no need to bother the rest. A few of my clients have dogs that guard and I advised them to feed the dog in it's crate (if the dog is bothered by children or the other dogs in the house). Usually, the dogs in the household will already have this issue worked out themselves unless it comes to bloodshed and if so, feeding in the crate is recommended. I never bother my three dogs while they are eating. There just isn't any reason to do this. In the wild, another dog wouldn't 'add' to the food or stick it's paw in the food unless it wanted to get it bitten off! There are ways to remove a valued item from a dog (toy, bone, etc.) without getting bit. Distracting the dog first then removing the item is best but never attempt to remove a valued item from a dog if the dog is hovering over it unless you know your dog!!! Dog owners should really learn the body language of dogs before they attempt to do things like this. The mother dog hovers over her pups to protect them, dogs hover over a bone or toy to guard it from others. When my very large German Shepherd has a chewie or a toy that he likes and is guarding it from the other two dogs, he hovers over it and when approached, his ears go back and he will look at them from the corners of his eyes. His body never moves from the item he is guarding. This is telling them that if you come any closer, you are likely to get bit. He has never bitten any of them but he growls and lets them know to go away. My dogs aren't aggressive with me at all and I am able to remove anything they have. You should know your dog very well before you attempt this yourself. 

I have two wild boys (7 and 9) and even though they know *exactly* how to treat and act around a dog - I still trust Slick 100 times more than them! I could not live with a dog that wasn't completely child proof. Example: yesterday, we got into the elevator with a toddler who lives on our floor. Slick was sitting and she was "petting" him... This involved sort of jabbing him in the face and sticking her entire hand into his mouth. We also encounter unknown children every single day. Clearly, I have no control over other people's children, but I am responsible for my dog. Darn straight you can reach into his bowl while he's eating!!!

  It's great that you trust your dog around strange children but if your dog bites someone perhaps out of pain (kids "poking" at his eyes and nose), you are looking at a hefty lawsuit and your dog being put down. The only reason a human should put a hand in a dog's bowl while he's eating is to temperament test and even then, a dummy hand is used. Once the dog's food is prepared and put down, leave it alone. Just because some humans don't mind having someone else's fork in their plate, this doesn't always apply to animals.

When my very large German Shepherd has a chewie or a toy that he likes and is guarding it from the other two dogs, he hovers over it and when approached, his ears go back and he will look at them from the corners of his eyes. His body never moves from the item he is guarding. This is telling them that if you come any closer, you are likely to get bit. He has never bitten any of them but he growls and lets them know to go away. My dogs aren't aggressive with me at all and I am able to remove anything they have. You should know your dog very well before you attempt this yourself.

OMG, am I ever glad you brought this up, I was in a discussion on this forum over German Shepherds moving their ears back, in my home that would be the dominant dog and all he is doing is giving a warning.
I was told only ears up means business, and I said .....wrong........[8D]

Thanks ldyharley and powderhound.... I thought I was alone.
 
I've worked in a vet surgery and also seen a dog put to sleep because of food aggression.  By the sounds of it the family were a normal, average loving family who had done everything lots of people here recommend.... dropping titbits in the bowl as they walked past, petting the dog etc.  As a pup it tolerated it, then when it reached adolescence it started to guard.  They doubled the efforts they had started in puppyhood but it got worse.  A "trainer" told them it was because the dog was entire and should be neutered.  They got that done, no change.  Eventually the inevitable happened.  I wondered at the time what would have happened if the dog had never been made to feel insecure around his food bowl by having people hover round it and interfere.  While I can appreciate why people do it, I think care should be taken not to take it too far.  Also, consider the possibility that with some dogs the preventative measures may actually cause the problem you're trying to prevent.

It is not always possible to control what OTHER people do, and sorry, but there are children in the world.  If I happen to be leash walking my dogs in town and we are following commands for their very favorite liver treats, should a child decide the charge and hug one of mine, they danged well better be bomb proof. In the time it takes to holler "incoming" the kid can be there and all over my dogs.  I've got german shepherds and folks give them wide berth to begin with because they are "german shepherds" and "scarey".  I want my animals to be excellent breed ambassadors.

I do my best to socialise them round kids.  But on the flip side I also do my best to protect them from kids.  I fairly certain they would tolerate all kinds of things that a kid can throw at them, because I've gone to a special effort to ensure thats the case.  But I don't put that to the test, its unnecessary risk and its not fair on the dog.  I just wouldn't let a strange kid come hairing out of nowhere and try to hug or pet my dogs..... no way.  If they made a beeline for us I'd put myself forward and put them off.
Bearing in mind the original topic, I don't feed my dogs their dinner in the street!  If a kid comes into my house I can make sure my dogs are shielded at meal times and left in peace or postpone the meal time until the brats have left.

Glenda, I am glad to hear your dogs are bomb proof, what happens when a child pokes or prods, pulls a tail or ear, or even hits a dog.....I have seen all of the above, so, what will happen then?
 
I don't trust kids, and if I see parents letting their kids run towards my dogs, well, I will then bodyblock the kid, and politely tell the parents that my dogs are not to be touched.

ORIGINAL: powderhound
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it but messing with a dog's food is how people get bitten.  In my profession we end up having to kill dogs because of people's mistakes--and it *is* their mistake--all over something that was totally preventable.  OMG the dog did what was natural and suddenly it's vicious and must be killed.  Tragic and disgusting to me because they deserve better.  Some of our Dr.s won't do it, they make the people take the dog elsewhere to euth it.  I repeat, there's no good reason to have your hand in their bowl.  Dropping food into their bowl--and 'drop' was your word--is not the same.  The kids shouldn't HAVE to leave the room, if they know how to behave around dogs there shouldn't be a problem, this is especially true if the dog doesn't care all that much to begin with.  I worry about the dog who isn't allowed to express displeasure if they're unhappy, I think they're the ticking timebombs.  I believe that saying that they (mentally stable dogs) won't bite if a growl will do. 

 
I personally do not think that "messing with a dog's food" is how people get bitten.   I think that allowing/accepting guarding and expecting to control the people around the dog is what creates the "ticking timebomb"- and that is how people get bitten.  You said "In my profession we end up having to kill dogs because of people's mistakes--and it *is* their mistake--all over something that was totally preventable."  Yes, except the mistake is NOT that they reached into the dog's bowl - the mistake is that they accepted resource guarding as acceptable behaviour.   Totally preventable, yes! 
 
 

It's great that you trust your dog around strange children but if your dog bites someone perhaps out of pain (kids "poking" at his eyes and nose), you are looking at a hefty lawsuit and your dog being put down. The only reason a human should put a hand in a dog's bowl while he's eating is to temperament test and even then, a dummy hand is used. Once the dog's food is prepared and put down, leave it alone. Just because some humans don't mind having someone else's fork in their plate, this doesn't always apply to animals.

 
lol!  It's not as if I encourage children to poke my dog in the eyes!  The fact is that MOST kids do not behave the way we'd like them to around our dogs - since we have no control over them, we must make sure we have control over our dogs - for EXACTLY the reason you stated above: "It's great that you trust your dog around strange children but if your dog bites someone perhaps out of pain (kids "poking" at his eyes and nose), you are looking at a hefty lawsuit and your dog being put down."  This is exactly why I MUST make sure that I CAN trust my dog around kids!  I think it's incredibly naive and a disservice to the dog to expect others (particularly children) to behave as you'd wish!   

Much was made of the story I shared about Thor doing a little kind of growl at a young age when one of my foster children poked him in the eye.  Among other things I was neglectful and shouldn't have children placed in my home.  As it happened, I was RIGHT there, within inches of both when that happened and the worst he did was a little sort of growl....which was MY clue to see what the heck was going on under my feet.  I corrected the child and reassured Thor that she hadn't meant to hurt him.  They spent over a year together as best buds.
 
Sometimes kids can come out of absolutely no where.  And sometimes parents are so far behind that they are ineffective.  To insure that my dogs are safe, I make darned sure that they do NOT react to stray kids.  Not with anything worse than a lick on the face.

ORIGINAL: snownose

Glenda, I am glad to hear your dogs are bomb proof, what happens when a child pokes or prods, pulls a tail or ear, or even hits a dog.....I have seen all of the above, so, what will happen then?

I don't trust kids, and if I see parents letting their kids run towards my dogs, well, I will then bodyblock the kid, and politely tell the parents that my dogs are not to be touched.

Well, you bring up the valid point that we are responsible for protecting our dogs from intrusion.  But, I have therapy dogs, and they are expected to tolerate such indiscretions from people.  I do try to minimize stress to them by using the appropriate dog for the appropriate audience - Sioux is not thrilled with endless attention from kids, for example, while Maska would go home with all of them.  I do the "Mine!" protocol with all my dogs, but I would not necessarily trust them with every human on the planet, I just do it to maximize my odds.  But, at Thanksgiving, my dogs are crated during dinner, lest a kid drop the drumstick on the floor.  My dogs are well behaved, but I never take chances with their safety.

I think it's incredibly naive and a disservice to the dog to expect others (particularly children) to behave as you'd wish!

 
I still feel that parents need to step up to their job of being responsible.
 
So, if they run into an on coming car will the car be blamed or the driver?
 
 
Can I reach into my dogs bowls, of course I can, do I do it on a regular basis....no....I have no reason to do so.
 
 

I readily agree that parents should take their responsibility more seriously.  But, since I can't force them to do so, I protect my dogs the  best I can and make sure that they aren't going to take an arm off an offending child.  Cuz, that's MY job.

The fact is that MOST kids do not behave the way we'd like them to around our dogs - since we have no control over them, we must make sure we have control over our dogs

 
YIKES!  That's enough to put me off being a parent except that it's too late now.....  I assume you meant other peoples kids!!!!!
 

I think it's incredibly naive and a disservice to the dog to expect others (particularly children) to behave as you'd wish!  

 
I agree - I don't trust other peoples kids one jot.  But that doesn't mean I expect my dogs to put up with all kinds of nonsense either.  I do my best to make sure they are bomb proof, but I never test that or expect them to tolerate rude or inconsiderate behaviour from anyone of any age.  Thankfully it seems they trust me in this regard and know that I will remove them from the situation if needs be.
 

Yes, except the mistake is NOT that they reached into the dog's bowl - the mistake is that they accepted resource guarding as acceptable behaviour. 

 
With the food guarding, if you reach into your dogs bowl as part of the training process and he growls, what do you do?