Dog Community

Should dogs be bothered while eating?

Posted : 1/20/2007 6:37:32 AM

Since I missed out on the other thread, thought I'd start one here.

I have six german shepherds. I can go to any one of them at any time and take whatever it is that they have, be it a food bowl, a fresh meaty bone, whatever. Or I can call them to me and ask for a drop it and get the item. Four of my six eat in their crates. Tyler and Sheba respect one anothers bowls and pretty much eat at the same rate so they do fine in the kitchen. The other four would be asking for food stealing, so they don't get the chance. And being that there is one of me, I can't be in all places at all times, so crates it is for meal times.

I taught my children not to bother the dogs when they were eating or sleeping. My oldest was about 18 months old when he bothered Linus and got bitten for his efforts. I didn't need to reinforce that. However, I did need to work with her. She normally was not a resource guarder, but this had been a horribly hot and sticky day and she was cranky, as were the rest of us. I've never since had a dog that couldn't be "bothered" when s/he was eating. At least not by humans. I don't care if they warn each other off their bowls, but by golly they better not warn ME off! Or any other human. While I might teach MY children proper respect for animals, that doesn't mean that others do the same.

My niece dropped by with her two little ones. Her 4 year old is a hellion on wheels and does not listen. Gracie immediately went to Tyler who was still eating his breakfast and gave him a hug. He gave her a look that clearly said "I'm eating. Can this wait?" and that was it. AFTER he finished, he went to her (by that time we had corraled her, no small feat) and gave her kisses. I know that my niece TRIES to teach the right stuff with her daughter, but they don't have dogs in their home so it's a bit harder, and this child only listens when she wants to listen.

It's my job to protect my dogs from the Gracies of the world, but, when it's 10 degrees do I ask them to wait outside for the five minutes it might take my dog to finish eating? Do I take my dog to a crate when someone drops by unexpectedly? I should have, but I didn't. In they come and if she makes a break for it while I'm removing her coat and makes a beeline for my dogs, well, my DOGS best be bombproof. I can't teach all the children of the world to respect my critters, so I'd best teach my critters to respect THEM.

Now I don't bother my dogs while they are eating.....in most cases we're talking minutes to inhale their food. But if I need to get to something in the area of the bowl, I excuse myself, touch them and relocate the bowl if needed. Not an issue, nor should it be. And I'd best explain that so I don't get flamed.....it'll go something like this "hey sweetie, mom needs to get in that cupboard, lets move over here to finish". No muss, no fuss.

But the point is, I can do whatever I want when they are eating, and that's as it should be.

griffinej5

Posted : 1/20/2007 8:13:25 AM

If I need to, I can touch Max while he's eating, or put my hands in his food. I made sure I could do that early on, so that I could if it was necessary, or there wouldn't be an issue if someone else did. I don't do it all the time because there's no reason to, but I know I could if I needed to. I don't know if this is true for Georgie since we just got her, and I don't feed her.

Chuffy

Posted : 1/20/2007 8:20:09 AM

Generally speaking, I think if you are relaxed about it the dog will follow suit and not necessarily need any training to be calm and relaxed with people around his food. I do know personally of a few people who thought this was an important thing to teach and went out of their way to do it - and created a dog who was edgy and grumpy at mealtimes. Chill out, make sure they know a good "leave" and "back" command and leave them to it I say.

Just for safety's sake, and out of respect for the dog, I confine him somewhere quiet to eat so that he can do so undisturbed. Crates are good for this. So far I have seen no evidence whatsoever that this makes the dog more likely to guard his food. Be a darned shame if it did, as this is one way to help a puppy create a +ve assoc with a crate.

Sure if a dog already resource guards you need to take steps to help him relax around food, chews and toys so that you can safely remove anything if you need to and other people aren't put at risk - you should be able to do that, definately. But if you have a dog already OK about it, or a puppy, you do have to be careful because bothering them at mealtimes can sometimes teach them to guard, whereas if they were left alone they would never have learned there was a reason to do it. I think it depends on the history of the dog and his temperament, as well as how far you go in "bothering" them. A lot of novice owners aren't too good at making these kind of judgement calls and get things wrong, inadvertantly creating a guardy dog which is why I think: "Relax and leave them to it" is a safer option.

mrv

Posted : 1/20/2007 8:48:28 AM

I believe it is our responsibility to teach dogs the skills they need to survive in the current social situation and environment. I work with my dogs/puppies consistently to develop the ability to touch or take anything they have any time I want. I want across the room verbal control as well as the ability to stick my hand in their mouth. I need to be able to prevent a situation or offer assistance.

I do not have trouble messing with a dog that is eating to develop a set of behaviors that would allow a small person (read that toddler or kid) who could some how slip under the radar screen, to remain safe if they approach my dog while it had food. Now if the dog came to me with resource guarding rest assured, management would be over the top and training new behavior would be a huge emphasis until it was under control.

houndlove

Posted : 1/20/2007 10:19:11 AM

It is understandable to me why dogs resource gaurd, but for safety's sake in our homes I think all effort should be made to eliminate this behavior. It is simply not safe to have a dog who gaurds from humans and there's plenty of ways to train this behavior out of a dog safely and simply. Gaurding from other dogs is something else and if you only have one dog and don't go to places where there are lots of dogs playing with toys, you can get away with having a dog who gaurds from dogs. I didn't really full-on deal with Conrad's gaurding from other dogs until we actually got another dog and had to put the kybosh on it for everyone's convenience.

Having said that, I wouldn't go antagonizing a dog while they're eating on puprose just to pove something. It is enough for me that while my dogs are eating you can take their bowls away or touch them somewhere on their bodies and they are okay with that. I'm not going to like jump on top of them and get all in their faces and see how far I can go before they growl.

jones

Posted : 1/20/2007 10:32:40 AM

I agree with the above... addressing and eliminating resource guarding makes our lives safer and more pleasant, and there are time-tested ways to do it that are non-aggressive, safe, and effective. I think it's important not to view resource guarding as some alarming symptom of a dangerously aggressive dog - that's inaccurate and a good way to ratchet up the tension and make the whole problem worse.

Should dogs be bothered while eating? ...No. But we don't have total control over our dogs' environments, so we owe it to them to help them develop coping skills for things that might upset them.

Xerxes

Posted : 1/20/2007 11:58:34 AM

Glenda,

You've done a marvelous job teaching these dogs not to resource guard. I think they've passed their final exam, given by Gracie!

I don't think we teach our dogs to not resource guard so that we or anyone else can just willy nilly take away the food bowl or push the dog away from his/her food. We teach our dogs not to resource guard because of the Gracie type of incidents...the child that runs up and gives the dog a hug, the nephew that runs by the food bowl, the toddler thataccidentally falls into the dog while the dog's eating.

On a personal note, I know that I could stick my face down into the dog bowl while either of my two are eating and they'd just look at me strangely. Xerxes won't even guard his food from the cat-yes there's been several times she's chased him away from his food bowl. Silly boy

Dogs shouldn't be bothered while they are eating, but by the same token-accidents and incidents will happen. We need to prepare our dogs for these incidents so that they do not act out of guarding instinct, and so they don't think that "this bump means the little human wants my food-and I'm hungry!"

Don't encourage Gracie to do this, nor anyone else. But it happened and now you know that in this specific instance-Tyler won't be snapping wildly or putting on his ugly face.

Stacita

Posted : 1/20/2007 4:33:39 PM

Truly, it's not something we've ever had a problem with. Our three eat in the kitchen and sometimes I'll add a little while they are eating. They will also all give up a bone or whatever without complaint. This was with no special training. I remember when Wolfgang first came at six months he tried to shove Tasha aside to finish her dinner and she let him know without bloodshed that this was unacceptable. A couple of fosters have tried to take from another dog, but they solved it themselves without a problem and I've never had a foster object to a human taking away something.

spiritdogs

Posted : 1/20/2007 8:11:48 PM

I do preventive training with all my dogs so that they are unlikely to guard food against a human. However, once I have done so, I do believe that dogs deserve to eat, and sleep, undisturbed, and I have separate eating spots for all of them so that they can do so.

astaracheetah

Posted : 1/21/2007 2:56:02 AM

I expect all my dogs to tolerate being touched while eating and/or having their food picked up. It would be a liability for me not to train each and every one not to be guardy. I train them for this by doing simple things like placing yummies in their food bowl while they're eating, touching and praising, picking up the bowl, putting yummies in, putting it down, etc. So now, if I need to pick up the bowl and move it, or make them move, for whatever reason, I can.

I don't bother them on a regular basis after they've learned this though.

ron2

Posted : 1/21/2007 9:52:39 AM

I can pick up, move, add to, or remove from Shadow's food. And I don't want anyone disturbing him while he's eating. Even if they have to wait in 10 degrees. That is, I will not allow him to jump on guests and I will not allow someone to bother him while he is eating.

Meat from my plate is the big, high reward that trumps all else. He has to earn that, so he guards it. When the cat gets too close to us, it is the only time he would go after her in earnest. I call him off with a recall because the meat is more important. I'm using the resource guarding to stop a resource guarding reaction. So, there are times, if I think it's necessary, that I will close the cat up in another room until our meal is over. Then she is released into general population, again.

Michelle

Posted : 1/21/2007 10:00:59 AM

Tookey is a resource guarder with food aggression issues, we take special precautions with him, like eating in his crate. We've tried to lessen this habit, but as he gets older and crotchitier it gets harder. Gracie, on the other hand, wags her tail if you pet her while she's eating, looks at you with her goofy ears pinned back smile (I've got to get a picture of that someday!) and assumes any hand near her bowl is going to give her MORE. She came this way, and we keep reinforcing her good attitude and behavior by hand feeding, adding nice things to the bowl and petting her while she eats. I don't do it constantly, but a couple of times a week. I don't consider it "bothering" her while she eats, and by her reactions it doesn't seem as if she does either.

eta: something I was thinking about in the other version of this thread, where a comparison was made to humans: in the long ago days when DH and I used to go out to a romantic dinner, he'd reach over and hold my hand, or touch my arms while we were eating, and we'd taste items off each other's place, and not once do I recall so much as sticking a fork in his hand!

Cita

Posted : 1/21/2007 12:16:29 PM

he'd reach over and hold my hand, or touch my arms while we were eating, and we'd taste items off each other's place, and not once do I recall so much as sticking a fork in his hand!

This is absolutely unacceptable. You need to let the DH know that you are the leader. I suggest revoking bed priviledges until he learns his place in the household. [

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Michelle

Posted : 1/21/2007 1:07:54 PM

ORIGINAL: Cita

he'd reach over and hold my hand, or touch my arms while we were eating, and we'd taste items off each other's place, and not once do I recall so much as sticking a fork in his hand!

This is absolutely unacceptable. You need to let the DH know that you are the leader. I suggest revoking bed priviledges until he learns his place in the household. []

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Chuffy

Posted : 1/21/2007 1:22:04 PM

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Usually if you have a reasonably well balanced dog who trusts you, there is no need to "train" them to be OK around food, it will just come naturally. If you have a dog who is prone to guarding, one who has a bad history or one who doesn't trust you (some rescue for example have serious trust issues despite loving owners best efforts) then certain things to try to prevent problems around food can actually cause them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that this is one of the few areas of living with a dog where I don't subscribe to "prevention is better than cure". In other words, it will probably pan out fine without any intervention from you and intervention may actually cause a problem (if you're not careful and depending on the dogs personality). I think it's better to monitor behaviour at feeding time and implement careful training only if it looks like it might be necessary, obviously tempered to the individual dog. Don't get me wrong, I do agree we should be able to do pretty much anything around the dog and have him stay calm and happy, while still respecting the dog and leaving him to it most of the time (as most people here seem to do), I'm just saying that to try to implement the wrong training to the wrong dog at the wrong stage of his development could do more harm than good.... does that make any sense? I'm just trying to advocate caution here, in case there are any newbies lurking about.