How "hands-off" can you be in training?

Sheba had some serious fear agression.  We've completely turned her around with "hands off" methods.  I'm at work so can't elaborate, but if anyone has questions, PM me and I'll tell you what we did over the weeke nd...

"I LOVE the fact that my dogs think. When training something new (especially complex things), you can really see the wheels turning in their minds, as they try to work the clicker to see what works. That is actually how I've taught some of my funnest (and funniest!, like Leap Frog...LOL) behaviours. I LOVE the fact that they aren't just waiting for me to show them what to do, but they are actively engaged in the learning process. I also love the fact that at the end of a very successful training session, they are almost as mentally satisfied as if they just came back from a 1/2 hour romp through the woods, as it's just such great mental stimulation (something great to use for rainy weather too!). "
 
 
Yes, me too! the look on your dog's face when she figures it out FOR HERSELF, such joy! And the side benefit-- once your dog is experienced in learning, you can teach that dog ANYTHING in minutes. And to know that your dog is obeying you because she wants to, not because she's afraid of you, not because she "has no choice", but because she freely chooses to do so.

ORIGINAL: corvus

I ask this partially because it came up in another thread and I wanted to see what other people thought, and partly because I'm planning on an akita puppy soon, which I intend to train with as little physical manipulations as possible.

I want to train without physically putting my dog in place if he needs help to get the position right, and without needing to apply pressure to a lead. Basically, I want to train him relying on my voice, body language, and the dog's own desire for rewards. I want to go this way because I've had some interesting results interacting with my wild hare in this way, and by far the most amazing result is that we have such a deep understanding of each other that we have formed a bond that takes my breath away when I try to comprehend just how deep it goes. I believe this bond formed because I could not show my hare what to do; he had to learn what I would respond to and how and tailor his behaviour accordingly. I had to learn a lot as well, and now I feel I can communicate better with the hare, in a way, then my best canine pal of 11 years, even though I swear she understands a good deal of what I'm saying verbally.

So, how hands-off can I be without being too frustrating to both me and the dog? At the moment, I'm thinking the most I want to do is be a tree when he tries to take off and let him realise on his own that he can't go any further and needs to come back to me to get what he wants. I suppose I might have to do more, but I'm wondering what other people think is possible. Is it impractical to want to approach training in this way to begin with?

For the record, my training goals are to have a dog with good manners in all situations, be confident, but still paying attention to me and taking cues from me. I won't be trusting the dog off leash, I don't think, but I would like to have the leash there just as a safety measure for emergencies.

 
How are you planning on getting instructions for the training method you selected?  Self Train? Guidance from books?  Advise from others?  Classes?  Trainer/Behaviorist?  From my recent experience I am having a hard time finding a Traiiner/Behaviorist that uses reward based- gentle- hands_free- clicker tool Training in the Chicago area.  They are here but there are few, in high demand, and most do not accomodate on weekends or fit my schedule.  I recently got directed to a group of trainer united under Truly Dog Friendly group [linkhttp://www.trulydogfriendly.com/blog/?page_id=2]http://www.trulydogfriendly.com/blog/?page_id=2[/link] .  This group was even more difficult to schedule.

I know there are a few training groups around that use clicker training. I'm going to go to one of them, and also read lots of books about clicker training as well as using a fair bit of my own ideas. I didn't get any instruction at all with my hare and we did pretty well on instinct and common sense alone. Of course, he doesn't walk on a leash and go places with me, which is why I like dogs. []

Even if I can't find a clicker training class to go to, I'd take my puppy to some other positive training methods class for the socialisation if nothing else. One thing I think I will have to deal with at some stage with training an akita is that he's going to get bored with repetitions of things we both know he can do. With that in mind, I'll be careful even in a clicker training class to leave the bulk of the class and do something else for a bit if the pup starts to get bored. The last thing I want is to teach him that training sessions are about 3 minutes of fun and then 27-57 minutes of boredom. I'm also going to put him through CGC. They use positive methods and teach life skills.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Tried everything very often means tried a variety of different suggestions for about 5 minutes and likely gave up during the extinction burst and moved on to something else.

 
You know, I hope people don't get hung up on the other stuff in this thread before they realize that this is an extremely succinct and very accurate post.  This is exactly what people do in the real world.  They try to change some aspect of the dog's behavior, the dog gets worse, and they think the method they used wasn't working, when, in reality, the dog was simply saying "hey, that always worked before - guess I'll have to be even more obnoxious".  So, they give up, and the dog "wins" because he never got to go through the extinction burst.  By the way, this doesn't only happen with positive methods, it happens with coercion, too.  The sad part is that when the coercive method doesn't work, and the dog ramps up the behavior, that is usually met by even more aggressive punishment by the human.  And, it's often when we see "dog turns on master" headlines...