Initial Conditions

ORIGINAL: dgriego

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs
If you don't think clicker training works, and ron hasn't convinced you, you should meet this guy.  His name was changed, and he does a lot more than "sit".  He has a CGC and a dynamite recall (how many hounds do you know that come even when their noses say go?) and he is one of the best therapy dogs I ever met.  He does, however, still hog the couch)

i think it works, i have seen it work, know many who use it and it works.... i also know a high drive vizsla who will come when his nose tells him go, and he was not trained with a clicker so you can achieve reliability both with and withour a clicker

Absolutely correct, but we do have some skeptics here who think clicker training is only for teaching tricks, when in fact it is used to teach other things as well. []
My point was also for those who think you can't get reliability without correction, because you certainly can.

 If you don't think clicker training works, and ron hasn't convinced you, you should meet this guy.  His name was changed, and he does a lot more than "sit".  He has a CGC and a dynamite recall (how many hounds do you know

 
Some are taking this statement the wrong way. Spiritdogs is not trying to devalue any one's approach, though she has done so in the past in regards to a tv personality. IMHO, her intent in this statement is to show the power of the positive. Some of you are new here. I resisted Spiritdog's ways for some time and I was constantly defending the physical approach. I couldn't see the use of clicker and I didn't want to hear how I was wrong for using the scruff. Re-read that last sentence.
 
So, I tried the clicker, not expecting much out of it. And I was proven wrong.
 
So, the exuberance of her statement is a testament to how much it can work and is not a direct condemnation of other methods.
 
Personally, I do what works, as we all do. OTOH, I thought I knew what was best before and learned even more since then. Also, since I am always aware of my own ignorance, I don't automatically assume the system is at fault. I assume I am making a mistake because, 98 % of the time, that is the case.
 
Case in point. Often, in the house, we train near the computer desk. A nice wide spot and I can toss the kong in 3 different directions. The other night, I was in the kitchen preparing dinner when Shadow wanted to train. I said "kong." He went and got it. And stood there. I said "retrieve." And he retrieved it to the computer desk, where all that lovely reinforcing happens a good percentage of the time. The system worked perfectly. My mistake was in not realizing that he would generalize retrieve to the computer desk, regardless of where I am. Solution, I make a change and train kong and retrieve in various locations. So, even I don't always get it right.
 
Again, the desire is to share the effectiveness of clicker training, not to denigrate anyone for their current choice. FWIW, I never felt that Spiritdogs was condemning me when I didn't agree with her assessments, recommendations, etc. But. sometimes, we bring our own perception to others' words.
 
Click - chocolate.
 

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

He had calluses from laying on the concrete floor of a shelter,

 
I wish I understood what creates calluses in dogs.  I have 2 Great Dane littermates female in their 9th year.  They have never been on concrete and their beds are human beds.  There a pads throughout the house for them to lay on and they do and outside the yard is soft artificial turf.  One Dane has huge crusted calluses on her elbows while the other has slight calluses.  When they are out in public together, I often get a comment on the calluses, as recent as today.  The hound here does not have any calluses nor does the other Great Dane here. 
 
 

DPU, I think pressure might cause the calluses in some cases.

Hey, I always say I am JQP so I resent this.

 
You have such a dry, droll sense of humor. I may have to click and dispense chocolate and teach you to use emoticons.[]

ORIGINAL: ron2

Hey, I always say I am JQP so I resent this.

You have such a dry, droll sense of humor. I may have to click and dispense chocolate and teach you to use emoticons.[]

 
If I use the emoticons then I will have that evil emoticon in view.  Like dogs, I shape my behavior to get pleasure and avoid displeasure.