Dog Community

J M

Posted : 5/31/2007 1:14:37 PM

If you are having an issue with someone, why don't you PM them and try to work it out?

Grudges and indirect statements will not help the matter. Things like that usually just fester and boil over into other topics and threads.

I can appreciate blunt and factual but not condescending, judgmental, and mean-spirited. That tells me the bitterness comes from being stretched and it is a smart person that knows their capacity and stays within it.

DPU

Posted : 5/31/2007 1:19:55 PM

ORIGINAL: JM

If you are having an issue with someone, why don't you PM them and try to work it out?

Grudges and indirect statements will not help the matter. Things like that usually just fester and boil over into other topics and threads.

I am having no issues with someone. We are taking about dog owner's responsibility and connected with that the approach some trainers use to win over JQP. I can't help it if a poster layed a gem at my feet to support my position.

sillysally

Posted : 5/31/2007 1:29:17 PM

ORIGINAL: DPU

ORIGINAL: JM

If you are having an issue with someone, why don't you PM them and try to work it out?

Grudges and indirect statements will not help the matter. Things like that usually just fester and boil over into other topics and threads.

I am having no issues with someone. We are taking about dog owner's responsibility and connected with that the approach some trainers use to win over JQP. I can't help it if a poster layed a gem at my feet to support my position.

Well, you seem to be repeatedly mentioning the incident with this "poster of mystery." I have read through the thread and cannot find anything "offensive" that was said to you. Like JM said, if you are having such an issue that you feel the need to repeatedly mention it, please take it to PM, as this thread is going rather well.

Benedict

Posted : 5/31/2007 1:35:26 PM

I agree that the whole point of this thread has wound up being that you are more likely to win people over by being nice.

I am honestly very tired though of the pervasive right/wrong attitude that I have been finding on this board in general recently. I commented in my original post that I think most dog owners need to see things a little less in black and white - the same is true of many of the dog owners here. (Including, I am sure, myself on many occasions.) Being RIGHT doesn't matter. Doing the RIGHT THING for the dog DOES.

Kate, who wants to change her posting font colour to grey.

DPU

Posted : 5/31/2007 1:36:12 PM

ORIGINAL: sillysally

Well, you seem to be repeatedly mentioning the incident with this "poster of mystery." I have read through the thread and cannot find anything "offensive" that was said to you. Like JM said, if you are having such an issue that you feel the need to repeatedly mention it, please take it to PM, as this thread is going rather well.

I'm not repeating, I am responding. If you can not find it then it does not exist so there is no problem. Just as if I don't encounter a WOEFULLY or WILFULLY ignorant JQP, then he/she does not exist. [

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sillysally

Posted : 5/31/2007 1:41:14 PM

ORIGINAL: DPU

ORIGINAL: sillysally

Well, you seem to be repeatedly mentioning the incident with this "poster of mystery." I have read through the thread and cannot find anything "offensive" that was said to you. Like JM said, if you are having such an issue that you feel the need to repeatedly mention it, please take it to PM, as this thread is going rather well.

If you can not find it then it does not exist so there is no problem.

And if it is such a problem, report it, take it to PM, or pick up the pieces and move on........

sillysally

Posted : 5/31/2007 1:47:42 PM

ORIGINAL: Benedict

I agree that the whole point of this thread has wound up being that you are more likely to win people over by being nice.

As someone who was a very green dog owner, I'll take good, honest information over "nice" anyday.

The only snarkiness I have seen between people on here tends to be when there are already a few experienced dog people debating training/food/whatever. I can't ever remember seeing a "dog newbie" come on here saying that there dog is doing this or that--how do I fix it and being responded to with "OMG, why don't you train your dog you freaking idiot!!!!" Actually, I think it is great that the trainers that are on here will come on and give repeated advice for FREE to perfect strangers who often don't pay them.

When I said that I was feeding Jack a food that a huge nuber of people on here do not like I did not get one snarky comment. I got honest (not snarky) opinions about the food, but, after all that's what I wanted.

Benedict

Posted : 5/31/2007 1:49:30 PM

Christina - I'd like to hope that honest and nice are not mutually exclusive. [

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sillysally

Posted : 5/31/2007 1:50:12 PM

ORIGINAL: sillysally

OK, let me give a real life example....

I have a friend who has a St Bernard. She got him from a byb at 5 weeks old. She was having issues potty training and having him tear things up, I gave her one of Sally's crates. He was rough with the kids and she was worried about how he would act when he was bigger, I gave her suggestions on how to get rid of the puppy biting and gave her the name of a training facility in our area that is close and cheaper then Petsmarty classes.

Eventually she began to punish him by smacking him on the nose If he didn't sit, she'd smack him on the nose. If he didn't come when called, she'd smack him on the nose. She never showed any interest in leash training until he was draggin her around. She just deals with that issue by not walking him. She claims that "the older he gets, the dumber he gets." I have told her repeatedly that giant breed dogs often are a bit slower to respond to commands, but not because they are dumb. She insists that he is stupid. DH and I have both worked with him on basic commands, and he most certainly *can* learn. We have had him out with Jack hoping that he would learn things like sitting better by watching Jack do it when commanded. We have done this IN FRONT of her and she has seen it. She still claims he is stupid. I have repestedly sung the praises and training books that one can get at the library and the training facility near her house. She has the money to go to training classes, and the library is free. She still just won't do it.

As a result, Louie the St. Bernard, who has no recall (probably due to being smacked on the nose because he didn't come fast enough), spends his days tied to the front porch on a ten foot horse lead rope

So, what do you do with a person like that?

I thought I'd bring this example up again, as it is a very real life example and a good example of what we have been talking about...

How do you use "nice" to get through to a person like this?

Would this person be considered "willfully" ignorant?

sillysally

Posted : 5/31/2007 1:53:46 PM

ORIGINAL: Benedict

Christina - I'd like to hope that honest and nice are not mutually exclusive. []

There are MANY, MANY people who classify "not nice" as anything they don't want to hear. I'll use Jack's food as an example again. There were those that said that the food would not be healthy for him long term. now, I happen to agree with this. However, I could very easily have freaked out about being attacked for trying to do what is best for my dog. All of those posters were nice enough, adding their own suggestions, etc., but there are many that would have been very upset with their honesty because it was not what they wanted to hear--get what I am saying?

Benedict

Posted : 5/31/2007 2:00:06 PM

Christina - yes, I get what you're saying totally. I am guilty of using my own definition of nice which is, under these circumstances, anything which is not intentionally belittling or abusive.

DPU

Posted : 5/31/2007 2:02:27 PM

ORIGINAL: sillysally

I can't ever remember seeing a "dog newbie" come on here saying that there dog is doing this or that--how do I fix it and being responded to with "OMG, why don't you train your dog you freaking idiot!!!!" Actually, I think it is great that the trainers that are on here will come on and give repeated advice for FREE to perfect strangers who often don't pay them.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. When newcomer starts a thread they are treated with courtesy and respect. There were one or two exceptions but then it changed when the poster found out the OP was a 10 year old or was provided more information by the OP. In these seldom seen cases, they always get turned around.

Liesje

Posted : 5/31/2007 2:03:06 PM

I'd like to hope that honest and nice are not mutually exclusive.

Sorry, just thought that was definitely worth repeating. [

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Benedict

Posted : 5/31/2007 2:05:58 PM

ORIGINAL: sillysally

ORIGINAL: sillysally

OK, let me give a real life example....

I have a friend who has a St Bernard. She got him from a byb at 5 weeks old. She was having issues potty training and having him tear things up, I gave her one of Sally's crates. He was rough with the kids and she was worried about how he would act when he was bigger, I gave her suggestions on how to get rid of the puppy biting and gave her the name of a training facility in our area that is close and cheaper then Petsmarty classes.

Eventually she began to punish him by smacking him on the nose If he didn't sit, she'd smack him on the nose. If he didn't come when called, she'd smack him on the nose. She never showed any interest in leash training until he was draggin her around. She just deals with that issue by not walking him. She claims that "the older he gets, the dumber he gets." I have told her repeatedly that giant breed dogs often are a bit slower to respond to commands, but not because they are dumb. She insists that he is stupid. DH and I have both worked with him on basic commands, and he most certainly *can* learn. We have had him out with Jack hoping that he would learn things like sitting better by watching Jack do it when commanded. We have done this IN FRONT of her and she has seen it. She still claims he is stupid. I have repestedly sung the praises and training books that one can get at the library and the training facility near her house. She has the money to go to training classes, and the library is free. She still just won't do it.

As a result, Louie the St. Bernard, who has no recall (probably due to being smacked on the nose because he didn't come fast enough), spends his days tied to the front porch on a ten foot horse lead rope

So, what do you do with a person like that?

I thought I'd bring this example up again, as it is a very real life example and a good example of what we have been talking about...

How do you use "nice" to get through to a person like this?

Would this person be considered "willfully" ignorant?

I'm not sure that you CAN use "nice" to get through to a person like this, but I do think that "nice" is what should be attempted first. And yes, this is a person I would term as being willfully ignorant, because she has been offered help and tools for improving the situation and refuses to attempt them. That brings me back to a question I posed earlier...how do you get through to a person like that AT ALL?

sillysally

Posted : 5/31/2007 2:18:43 PM

ORIGINAL: Benedict

Christina - yes, I get what you're saying totally. I am guilty of using my own definition of nice which is, under these circumstances, anything which is not intentionally belittling or abusive.

Well, as I said, the only time I have seen something other then what falls under your definition of "nice" has been between people who were experienced dog people going at each other about training methods. OK, I lied I have seen one individual say some pretty nasty things when it came to the topic of euthing for behavior issues (but I think that person is no longer with us) and there have been a few highly inappropriate "you are killing your dog" posts in the Nutricion section, which were dealt with.

I don't you are ever going to get away from certain highly opinionated individuals locking horns over certain subjects on any board like this though. Frankly, I learn a lot from those discussions though. I would hate to see them go away for good....

ETA: In regards to the individual I posted about, I'm pretty much at a loss with her.....

...I cannot spell to save my life today.....[

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