The Blame Game - It's not my fault! Excuses, excuses, excuses...

ORIGINAL: DPU

ORIGINAL: Ixas_girl

DPU, do you mean when a newbie posts a question here and **Content Removed**
If that's what you mean, I can provide some links []

No, this is where a new person (1st post) creates a thread describing a specific dog behavior issue.  Everyone is welcoming and kind.  Some can't help with the problem but still join in to say welcome.  The threads are very nice to read.

What?!  This is so far removred from the original\ topic i can barely rmbr what it was` anymore!!!!

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

Apparently, for DPU, this thread seems to be aimed at certain people, who he has not deigned to identify (although I notice that my name certainly came up), but IMO, his posts in this thread reek of "We have met the enemy and he is us." 

Original wording from The Pogo Papers:
"There is no need to sally forth, for it remains true that those things which make us human are, curiously enough, always close at hand. Resolve then, that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tinny blast on tiny trumpets, we shall meet the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may be us.”

I am not sure of the intent of the Spiritdogs quote, but I keep saying I am JQP and I work most effectively on change within my group.  I harp on the dog professionals to do the same. 

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Yes, it can become a circular unless there is a break away because of a creativie idea.  Most of the focus has been on the dog owner.  I admit I want the dog professional to do more and I do focus on the one thing that I have the ability to change in this medium, the individual attitude.  And yes there are individual dog trainer that go way out of their way to try and connect with the dog owner.  But, what can the dog professional as a group do to reverse what the OP describes as "us".  There has to be leaders amongs the dog professionals that can organize the group and come up with ideas on ways to connect with the dog owner.  They meet all the time at seminars, conferences, on-line, dog clubs, etc.  Should there be Dog Professional Society that charges membership fees and that fee be used for advertisements and promotions.  I don't know, I am not a dog professional so I don't how the professionals operate as a group, if they do at all.  Is the group not cohesive?  Is there a organization that does wonderful things.  If so, this thread would have been the perfect place to highlight such accomplishments.

Maybe it depends on the locale, but I've found no shortage of professionals willing to help.  There are a dozen good training facilities within my metro area, and several dozen more trainers that evaluate problems on a one-on-one on-site basis on the side.  Anyone can call the behaviorist at our shelter at any time and ask a question.  Our shelter has dozens of handouts on dog training and all of the options in our area.  Often, potential adopters are required to sign up for basic training during the adoption process.  I talked to the instructor of my class before class one day and she was more than willing to answer all of my questions and give info on additional courses I could take, even with other trainers.  She comes to class 1/2 hour early and stays as long as she needs to.  She limits her class sizes so she can guarantee to tailor the training of each individual dog, even though they are group classes.  There's so many agility clubs and kennel clubs around here.  Lately I've been browsing the websites of various trainers and facilities and I'm impressed by the quality and professionalism I'm finding (very easily).  Through the breed rescue I met a trainer who put in me in contact with a breeder, through my breeder, I met someone into agility, and through her I met someone into tracking.  Now I've got wonderul mentors  - a trainer (obedience and agility), handler (MACH dogs), tracking (champion tracking dogs), and the breeder (very ethical, judge of the breed, husband is a vet).  All of them reached out to ME and answered my e-mails, pointed me towards new resources, helped me out at no cost. 

Dog owners in this area do NOT suffer from a lack of availability of good resources and opportunities, they just have to understand that their dog is worthy and asking for help is not a bad thing!

ORIGINAL: Angelique

What do "we" want? Someone else to fix our dog using a method which we find emotionally acceptable. "We" choose management, distraction, (or worse), over resolution. An owner may refuse to change, and refuse to put the needs of the dog first...poop I say to this, POOP! []

Unless I have totally misinterpreted the OP use of "us", I include the dog professional.  So I ask the Dog Professional, not as an individual or an individual facility, but as a cohesive group, Does the group exist?  What is its mission?  Are there ways that the group can influence the dog owners to be "more responsible".  Its time to brag!

Liesje, the Spiritdogs post would say you are continuing the circle.

Huh?  Hey I'm trying to see your point of view, but sometimes I can't figure out what you mean.  So far, at least the way I'm reading it (please correct me if I'm wrong), you're saying it's bad that we encourage owners to get training, bad that trainers deign to make suggestions about doing/not doing certain techniques and using/not using certain tools even when they have been approached by those wanting advice, bad that we want owners to actively participate (rather than dropping off a dog like a kid at school) in training as a means to a relationship not just learning commands, and it's not enough that trainers make themselves available and provide additional references and materials.

So what specifically do you think is missing?  What are you expecting but not finding?

Liesje, please edit and remove the quote since Personal Champ red ink the original quote.  Once you do that, I will remove this statement.
 
In your post, change the word bad to good and then we are in agreement.  It is the delivery and attitude in teaching JQP dog owner that I object.  I did not have this objection before coming to the forum.  It is when I read the JQP bashing threads that I spotted something wrong here.
 
Now lets move on and give the dog professional the opportunity to tell us how they as a group operate and contribute to fixing the woes of the dog.  I honestly do not know if they exist as a cohesive group.

Where are the JQP bashing threads?  I'd like to see them.  I'm not asking b/c I don't believe you, but b/c I probably haven't been here long enough.  I've not seen any "bashing" attitudes towards JQP in this thread, so I'd like to see these other threads so I can see what you are refering to.  

Use the search feature entering JQP.  The last one was tame.  My expectation is that you will not see what I see since you have rebutted most of my posts here.  But thanks for the consideration.

Dog Professionals, are there nationals professional organizations?

OK, I checked a bunch of threads and it seems like most of the harshness is in threads created about JQP (not threads created by JQP), and I don't find actual bashing or personal insults towards those who might be considered "JQP".  It seems some threads recently are just creating conflicts that don't exist.  We have threads about other threads....why the drama?  I don't see professionals being rude or bashing JQP here or in my real life experiences, just threads where people get snippy trying to define who JQP is.  Who cares?  

You are good.  You did all the research and reading in 8 minutes.  Once you eliminate the thinking that you are above or better than the average dog owner, then you will see the comments made about JQP (not here) as directed at you.  I consider myself brave in stating that I AM JQP and I have a keyboard, talk to me, lets have a dialogue.  I truly believe that I am JQP and I can represent my peers.
 
Now again, its the Dog Professional's show.

Once you eliminate the thinking that you are above or better than the average dog owner, then you will see the comments made about JQP (not here) as directed at you.

I don't even own a dog, I'm below the average dog owner, but thanks for telling me how I think and feel. []  As I said before, I have had comments directed at me on here, but I didn't take them personally.  I tried the things that people suggested, I looked into the materials they recommended trying, etc, etc.  I don't mind people pointing me in the right direction, especially when I am wrong.  But, whatever, only listen to "the dog professional" show if that's the only opinions that matter...

Alright professionals, take it away!....[]

ORIGINAL: Liesje

Once you eliminate the thinking that you are above or better than the average dog owner, then you will see the comments made about JQP (not here) as directed at you.

Alright professionals, take it away!....[]

 
I was careless I should have represented "you" as "*you*, meaning not you specifically in that sentence.  That is what I had to do.  I know you do not have a dog but are getting a dog.  I know you are heavily involved in rescue.  I can relate somewhat to your work because I don't have any cats but I care for cats at the Petsmart shelter.  I do have different perspective on the animals for each of the types of volunteer work I do.
 
Dog Professionals, and the way we go!

Can you start a new thread w/ your question?  I'm interested in the response but we may not get it here since it's a bit far from Anqelique's original purpose/topic and so many people never read the CM forum.