Skittish Dogs/"Living in the Past"...

When Cesar says "dogs don't care about the past" he is basically saying the same thing that a lot of positive trainers say, "dogs live in the moment".  While that's true, and is a good reason for not coddling a fearful dog, in neither of those cases does it suggest that you will ever completely remake the dog's genetic makeup or be able to completely make up for a lack of early socialization.  What I try to do with my students is explain the circumstances that can help or hurt such dogs, and coach them on how to maximize their own dog's potential. 
Most dogs are born normal, but there are a few that are genetically high strung, or overly shy.  I find that the most common reason for this, however, is lack of appropriate socialization during critical times in dogs' development.  And, you are quite right - that's a human mistake.

When Cesar says "dogs don't care about the past" he is basically saying the same thing that a lot of positive trainers say, "dogs live in the moment".

 
I've kinda of always wondered about those statements. In that they definately retain fear of specific situations, based on their background, their past does seem to intrude. I agree that a confident and cheerful attitude does much to improve the situation.
 
Floyd decided that he wanted nothing to do with his past. I know that his foster mother treated him very well, but he didn't recieve as much attention, ball chasing time, bed rest, etc. as he did after adoption. That was actually a very good thing because he was able to immediately see the positive benefits of his new life. On the negative side, she's a vet tech and used to take him to work a couple of times a week. She said he had absolutely no problem with that. Lo and behold, I was very surprised to discover that he stressed badly just walking in the door of the vet's office. Also when we've gone to visit her, he will not acknowledge her presence. She'll throw the ball for him but he absolutely won't return it to her. I think he's definately afraid that he's going to live there again.
 
His fears of busy streets could be lack of socialization or could be related to the amount of time he spent on his own as a stray. Perhaps both.
 
I certainly admire CM's calmness and ability to handle difficult situations. However, I know that for me, preventing the dog from "flipping out" is always a far wiser choice even if it takes longer to get results.

ORIGINAL: Liesje

Since you are not familiar with Cesar's methods and I didn't really elaborate (sorry!) what I mean there is ignoring the dog when it is acting terrified and praising or rewarding the dog when it is acting calm.  When most inexperienced owners see their dog acting scared, they treat it like a baby going "ooooh, poor baby!  Come here and let mommy pet you..." and so on, but showing them attention and affection actually reinforces their fear and insecurity.  The second part of the problem is not only are they reinforcing fear, but they are presenting no other alternative.  The dog should be praise, given attention, and rewarded when it acts calmly and appropriately, NOT when it is acting scared and doing bad things out of fear.  Picking up a small dog when it is cowering or barking at other people out of fear would be another example of reinforcing the insecurity of the dog.  Giving a dog a treat if it is whining during a thunder storm, etc.  I think what he's trying to say is that no matter what our intentions a dog just cannot make the correlation "Oh, I am being comforted, therefore I should feel OK and stop doing this behavior even though they are being extra nice while I'm doing it."  Instead the dog thinks "Oh, but they're cooing at me and scratching my head if I growl at strangers and cry during a thunder storm so I should keep doing this in order to keep getting their affections."

I've read a lot of different things about fearful dogs, and just about everything I've read states that same philosophy...

I apologize if you guys don't think this belongs here, but it's quite an interesting perspective nonetheless, and happened quite unintentionally:
http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/archives/adrenalin.txt
Also this case study by Deborah Jones, Ph.D.:
http://www.k9infocus.com/casestudy7.htm
In the comments section, Deb talks about the impact of fear that is classically conditioned, and about events that occur during fear imprint periods.  Those of us who rescue dogs don't have the historical perspective as to whether our dogs had a frightening event happen during a fear period, but IMO it would be harder to rehab a dog that had that happen, than one that didn't, and it might be helpful to know the dog's history.  I think even Cesar likes to get a feel at least for what the owners have been doing (and as we have seen, sometimes it's pretty obvious), although I don't know that he asks them to complete any kind of questionnaire or anything  before the visit (do any of you know?)

Just as an aside, when I got my fearful hound, I renamed him, to avoid him "living in the past".  His native name means "strong".  And, he has lived up to it. [sm=proud.gif]

I think we can do a lot by simply changing our perspective on the dog, expecting improvement, but at the same time, supporting that improvement with leadership, boundaries, and a little celebration thrown in. []

One time a maintenance guy came over to our apartment, said hi, and climbed onto our kitchen-island to look at the air-intake pipe we had problems with. Jack usually wobbles when people come, but when that guy climbed onto the counter, Jack got scared and started barking. I told him to go away and do something; he hid behind me and quietly pocked through my legs. As I'd start moving, he'd start barking - "Please, block me form that guy, don't move". He was looking up to me, but I wasn't doing enough for him by moving around (for him to feel safe).
Same happened when our neighbors rolled something on a trolley in a hallway. That trolley made this noise he's never heard before, and he wouldn't stop barking! It was clear he was looking up to us, but it was like, we weren't doing enough to reassure him... So, I got up, his barking increased as I approached the door (like we were ganging up). Then, I actually pretended to smell the door (warning: I am weird like that). He gave me this look that I can't describe - very intense and serious and trusting. I looked at him and relaxed my body, squint my eyes a little and walked off. That was it. He laid down - no more barking. I thought well, maybe scardy dogs want you to do more to reassure them. Is that possible?

ORIGINAL: TinaK
Then, I actually pretended to smell the door (warning: I am weird like that). He gave me this look that I can't describe - very intense and serious and trusting. I looked at him and relaxed my body, squint my eyes a little and walked off. That was it. He laid down - no more barking.

[sm=floating.gif]

[sm=director.gif] beauoooootiful!

Then, I actually pretended to smell the door (warning: I am weird like that). He gave me this look that I can't describe - very intense and serious and trusting. I looked at him and relaxed my body, squint my eyes a little and walked off.

I've told the story here before, but I actually did that with a scary trash barrel once - how weird does that make me? [sm=rofl.gif]

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

Then, I actually pretended to smell the door (warning: I am weird like that). He gave me this look that I can't describe - very intense and serious and trusting. I looked at him and relaxed my body, squint my eyes a little and walked off.

I've told the story here before, but I actually did that with a scary trash barrel once - how weird does that make me? [sm=rofl.gif]

Did that work? [8D]

I won't tell you other things I do... [sm=blush.gif] My neighbors think I am crazy, but Jack seems to respond... These big brown eyes: "What's the verdict, big dog?" Or, "If you haven't smelled it, how do you know it's not threatening to us?" Remember, nose, ears, eyes... []

Talking about skittish dogs, in one of the book I was reading, the author says that if a pup is afraid, you should start out by ignoring the scary thing. Then, if the pup still looks afraid, acknowledge his fear, but don't let him run off as the act of escape would be reinforcing, and he'll be more likely to repeat it again. If the pup doesn't stop acting out, he recommends leaning down while looking straight the scary thing, and firmly holding the pup with a stretched out palm. You don't force the pup to stay, you move as he moves, but your 'still' touch will let him know that he is not along in the face of this danger, and that his leader is confident... I love this approach. This of course deals with puppies who haven't learned to run off. But, I think we can apply it to older dogs too...

ORIGINAL: TinaK

I won't tell you other things I do... [sm=blush.gif]

Please, please, please?!

[sm=please.gif]

ORIGINAL: Ixas_girl

ORIGINAL: TinaK

I won't tell you other things I do... [sm=blush.gif]

Please, please, please?!

[sm=please.gif]

[sm=rotfl.gif]

I'd have to see other people's weirdness first, before I show you all mine. [8D]

Did that work?

Yup - he has been nonchalantly walking by them ever since. []

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

Did that work?

Yup - he has been nonchalantly walking by them ever since. []

Wow. Ok, then I think we got one tip for dog owners: "Thou should smell a scary thing to let the dog know you've inspected it."

Ok, then, you're on! But you strike me as a truly golden odd bird, so I imagine you'll outshine us all! []

I sniff stuff, too. Agreed, it's effective. Agreed the neigbors: [sm=eek.gif]

I also shrug a lot. Somehow she gets that as a cue for "blah, that's boring"

I stare at certain things when I want her to ignore certain other things.

While teaching my dog how to play with other dogs, we praised her for sniffing them and being sniffed. I took this practice home and have play sessions with her in which we do "sniffing" [:'(] I also amped that up into sessions with play biting - I'll sniff near her butt then give her playbites with my fingers that are held close to my face ... at first she withdrew from them, but now it's just part of play. (no, I don't let her mouth me back)

I do calming signals to my dog, like blinking, yawning, lip licking. I play bow to my dog. During play I'll lay on my back with feet and hands up, and play bite her leg, then when she's on her back I play bite her belly, sides, and face.

When she's being obsessive over our backyard squirrel, I throw gravel at it to make it go away, my dog follows me around even more after I do that, and she's been obsessing less. (no, I don't hurt the squirrel)

We "talk" to each other: morning howling with the alarm bells, growly excited talk before meals and going out for adventures, happy yippy play talk. I've been using barky, growly sounds in my search for alternatives to "no" and "eh eh". Yeah, the neighbors: [sm=eek.gif]

People talk about dogs "living in the moment". What do you think that means? Do you think dogs are able to remember the past or anticipate the future?
 
Brad Higgins