Dog Community

Accidentally “Mastered the Walk” for 15 minutes

Posted : 4/20/2007 12:54:58 AM

Wow. It was not what I expected … it was so much more … and so much less.

I definitively learned that at least one important ingredient of “mastering the walk” is not achieved by collars, leashes, treats, backpacks, speed, posture, position, body language, corrections, and surprisingly, not even exercise. It#%92s much more elusive.

Warning: much woo-woo ahead. This thread is intended to offer a forum to explore an elusive energetic quality in the leadership style associated with Millan. This thread is not intended to invite a debate about the legitimacy of ideas associated with pack leadership, just a calm space to share observations and experiences regarding “states of mind” in regards to “mastering the walk.”

Ixa#%92s been a lot less reactive lately, but was having a “bad” morning, a couple of days ago. During our jog, she suddenly began lunging at the end of the leash intensely, flipping like a fish, in reaction another dog. (described here: http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=322431)

After we calmed down, I decided that we were now going to go on my walk. That she is my dog, and she is on my walk. I didn#%92t want to transmit any unstable emotional energy onto her (sympathy for her fearfulness, frustration at the lunging, or anxiety whether having just layed her down on her side was ok), so I emptied myself out emotionally. My mind state was “I am on a walk. I am on a walk with my purse.” And, I literally imagined that I was carrying a purse, rather than walking a dog. Weird, huh?! But, somehow, I knew I needed to de-emotionalize the moment, since I felt conflicted about performing a dominance ritual with my dog. Imagining Ixa as a purse seemed to be the only clean, unemotional image my mind could grasp.

Funny thing: what followed was 15 minutes of absolutely perfect walking. Ixa walked at my side, no tension in the leash. I did not look at her or emote on her. I was full of me, and felt as though I was projecting a bubble of calm that extended beyond me, and encompassed her. I did not need her to do anything, I was not relying on her to behave … she was … just a purse. But in fact, since she is actually my dog, my dog that I am in love with, this was actually a powerful meditation. It was like I had “claimed” my self, my space, my walk, my dog. I had no doubts, no questions, no reactivity of my own. Pure equanimity. Very zen.

The moment I started to register her “good walking” with a “good girl”, the “spell” would start to break. It only held as long as I maintained “my walk” with “my purse.” We passed some other dogs, and she didn#%92t even break step, at all. I could tell she was looking up at me with more frequency, but I didn#%92t acknowledge it. This serene walking held for about 15 minutes, not all the way home, but it was really something. Our walks and jogs, yesterday and today, have been similar. When I am walking, full of myself, she is in line with me. When my mind wanders to my worries, she drifts forward.

Oddly enough, I had been thinking, at the beginning of our walk that morning, that I was glad I hadn#%92t really worked much on “heel” yet. Our normal walking style is for Ixa to walk 4-6#%92 ahead of me, at or near the end of a loose leash. I was thinking that her choice in where to walk was a good barometer of her trust in me. Early on, I had decided that Ixa is smart enough to know when to rely on me and when not to; that, as my mastery grew, her followership would, too. The walk is the measure of my being present in my leadership, and her having faith in that.

I don#%92t mind the “fake it till you can make it” idea. But I#%92m glad to have learned this deep truth about the power of energy between a person and a dog. Ixa#%92s been sensing this stuff all along, I#%92m just now entering the flow. (Dogs are masters of communication.) It seems the dominance ritual was the catalyst to my learning and experiencing this. I#%92m guessing that now that I know this, my “masterful” walking will flourish and Ixa#%92s followership will too. Because I will have claimed and filled the shoes.

Does this hit a chord with anyone? How do you describe the quality of energy or state of mind regarding your connection with your dog and your leadership role? What are the leadership tools you use to help you achieve and maintain calm, in your own mind as well as your dog#%92s?

Ixa says, "Thanks for all the lessons you teach my human, but gimme her back! She's been at the compooter all nite! Oh, and yoo like my new doggles?"

Trev El

Posted : 4/20/2007 1:20:50 AM

Dog=goD God=doG. It sounds like you became one with the universe for that brief 15 minutes of eternity. Very Zen like indeed!

Trev El

Posted : 4/20/2007 1:24:57 AM

Oh yeah... I love the disclaimers that start off all your posts! Seems to have a delightful calming affect for everyone involved![

]

spiritdogs

Posted : 4/20/2007 7:23:01 AM

I think what you experienced is that your dog, who is leash reactive, no longer felt the tension that YOU used to send down the leash. And, you were probably breathing normally, as well. This is so textbook - frankly, leash aggression (reactivity) IS a handler exacerbated problem, and once the handler is doing better, the dogs usually do. It really isn't about controlling the dog, or making it walk behind you, as some would have you believe, it's about NOT transmitting that anxious, or tense, energy down the leash. And, it's about your ability to keep the dog safe. If she thinks you are not worried, she's less worried, because you already are the leader! (Imagine how the subordinate dog feels if the leader is scared - there must really be something to worry about.) So, the fact that you were mentally able to maintain a demeanor of confidence helped her.

spiritdogs

Posted : 4/20/2007 7:24:59 AM

ORIGINAL: Trevell

Oh yeah... I love the disclaimers that start off all your posts! Seems to have a delightful calming affect for everyone involved![]

**Content Removed - Off Topic**

Liesje

Posted : 4/20/2007 8:06:17 AM

Does this hit a chord with anyone? How do you describe the quality of energy or state of mind regarding your connection with your dog and your leadership role? What are the leadership tools you use to help you achieve and maintain calm, in your own mind as well as your dog#%92s?

I had an incident last night that ironically resulted in the best walk by any dog ever. I had this dog Charlie, like the size of a Newfoundland, but the structure of a Border Collie. He got all hyped up in the dog run, going back and forth with another dog. Instead of being tired and ready for a calm walk, he was all keyed up. I've walked him before, so I know he's used to a leash. He kept pulling off to the side, insisting on sniffing certain areas. I gave him a tug back and he just SNAPPED. He went absolutely apeshit. He was leaping in the air, tossing his head, doing the "fish" thing, but he's taller than me when he stands and probably weighs about the same. We are required to use slip leads and he had no other collar on, so I reached up to grab the lead at his neck so I could hold him arm's length away and avoid his lunges. He'd gotten so tangled in the rest of the lead, he was going from acting up to panicking. He started growling and was lunging for my throat. I was SO scared! His paws swiped me a few times and I got scratched on the chest. I kept thinking "Cesar would never let go, he would never let go, don't let go, you let go and he either lunges at you or he's gone....you get a bad bite or you lose the dog..." I had no control over him since the lead was so tangled, pulling on it would have broken his legs. I was just ready to let go and let him get me when all the sudden he just sat down, right on his butt, panting and frothing at the mouth. I could tell he was very upset because he wasn't really sitting in a comfortable sitting position - his legs were splayed out, his head was ducked, and he wouldn't even open his eyes. He was still very tangled and I didn't dare reach in, so I let him sit there for a minute. He could have easily darted away. I just stood there and tried not to react or be scared and then he decided he would walk. I took the lead and he walked perfectly, without incident, calm and happy, right at my side.

I guess whatever I did worked. At the time, I was only thinking of saving my life from this insane animal lunging at my juggular and it was not my intent to wrestle him into submission, just to keep him off me, but somehow he got the point and was an angel after that.

Like you said, the lead had little to do with it since I had no control, and once we started walking I hardly had to correct him. He kept at my side with the lead slack and hanging over his side.

Why do they have to be so bad before they get good? [

]

Hopefully tomorrow will have the same results, without the near-attack....

J M

Posted : 4/20/2007 8:40:09 AM

This is exactly where you need to be. I was full of me,

I learned a valuable lesson yesterday, just by observation. and it is in the same line as yours.

I'll make it as short as possible.

Dude walking with super cool shepard by my house. Zeus flys around the house barking.

Dude and super cool shepard, pays no mind and continues around the corner to the other end of fence.

Zeus does another round of the house barking. Owner flips his head because Zeus' barking is closer. Owner wants to make sure Zeus is not coming after his dog.

Sooner as owner flips his head, super cool sheperd flips his head and does an "almost lunge".

Owner sees that Zeus is unable to get to his dog and forward he marches. Super cool sheperd marches also.

The moral of the story is...that dog cared absolutely zilch about Zeus until he saw his owner react. But my problem with all of this is...of course the owner reacted (but barely, just turned his head) he had to make sure there wasn't going to be any trouble.

jenhuedepohl

Posted : 4/20/2007 9:17:33 AM

I am totally in agreement with you there Ixas_Girl! That is so wonderful that you got that experience. The "Doggie Zen" thing is what I like about CM. It really struck a chord with me the first time I saw his show because it was so like my experience with horses. Horses can be so like dogs in how your emotions and "energy" effect them. One of my BEST "highs" in my whole life is the first time I jumped a 3 foot course of fences. I had never jumped fences that high, and I had never ridden that particular horse before, but we just clicked and flowed over those fences like water. It was amazing! For a long time I thought I could only do a course that well with *that* horse. It was my riding instructor that got me to go back to how I *felt* that day before I could do it again with other horses.

TinaK

Posted : 4/20/2007 10:16:51 AM

Oh wow, I am getting the shivers reading these... Personally, I don't think it's "textbook" endeavor, it's something else. Zen-alishious indeed. I have always thought that it was sort of like meditation! I totally agree. The change is amazing, without words, commands or previous HEEL lessons. There goes your years and years of meditation. [

]

What are the leadership tools you use to help you achieve and maintain calm, in your own mind as well as your dog#%92s?

That's what I want to know! Some believe in "fake it till you make it", but that won't work for me. I have to feel it emotionally, and only then I'll make it. I've head these "enlightening" zen moments like these... but not often, I don't have the personally. [&o] But, when I did have them, it was this state of relaxation, awareness, indifference... something like that. AND, I wasn't aware of how am I supposed to be doing it. That's why "faking it" doesn't work for me, because faking makes me self-conscious. Like one writer once said: "...Anything self-conscious is lousy".

OK, I have no idea what I am talking about now. More coffee.

Angelique

Posted : 4/20/2007 10:31:55 AM

ORIGINAL: jenhuedepohl

I am totally in agreement with you there Ixas_Girl! That is so wonderful that you got that experience. The "Doggie Zen" thing is what I like about CM. It really struck a chord with me the first time I saw his show because it was so like my experience with horses. Horses can be so like dogs in how your emotions and "energy" effect them. One of my BEST "highs" in my whole life is the first time I jumped a 3 foot course of fences. I had never jumped fences that high, and I had never ridden that particular horse before, but we just clicked and flowed over those fences like water. It was amazing! For a long time I thought I could only do a course that well with *that* horse. It was my riding instructor that got me to go back to how I *felt* that day before I could do it again with other horses.

I always love reading your posts because this is also where I'm coming from! I see so much "horse sense" in CM, but I've never heard him talk about working with horses himself.

This is also one of the things I admire about Suzanne Clothier. She pays attention to teaching "dogmanship" and focuses on us being the key component and "tool" in our relationships with our dogs.

I mentioned in another thread that I definately see a need for understanding the difference between a horse trainer and a riding instructor. I think there is also a "feel" which is gained when one learns "dogmanship", which can be difficult to describe in words sometimes.

I do know what it does feel like to me when I become in sync and "one" with a horse or dog - where there is an understanding and level of communication within the relationship which goes beyond external performance or behaviors.

I think it's this "something" which exists on a more primal and natural level, which humans may have lost a bit along the way with all of our laboratory "science" and over annalizations.

It's always good to read posts like the ones in this thread where someone catches a glimpse of understanding or actually connects with this "something" which we have lost a bit, yet still exists if you look a little deeper and/or open yourself up to the possibilities.

espencer

Posted : 4/20/2007 10:43:35 AM

ORIGINAL: Ixas_girl

I could tell she was looking up at me with more frequency

Right there, your dog looks at you waiting for the next thing to do, if there is another dog around you then your dog will look at you first to see how you will react to it (since she is not feeling anything thru the leash) something like "ok what do we do now, attack? oh my leader is not even looking at the other dog, i guess its fine then to keep walking"

I personally LOVE hands free walking, i tie the leash to my waist with the right length to have my dog walking next to me and i'm done, no more worries, that way the arm does not send mixed signals by being tense if i dont realize it, its easier for the dog to "correct" herself is shes going to far away since there is a big difference between trying to gain extra space by pulling an arm than by pulling an entire human

Everytime when i do it with my dog, with dogs that are pullers or dog -aggressive dogs, they all are it that "walking only mode" after 2 or 3 minutes of being walking at the most by being calm and apply this technique you are talking about

ORIGINAL: Liesje

I kept thinking "Cesar would never let go, he would never let go, don't let go, you let go and he either lunges at you or he's gone....you get a bad bite or you lose the dog..." I had no control over him since the lead was so tangled, pulling on it would have broken his legs. I was just ready to let go and let him get me when all the sudden he just sat down, right on his butt, panting and frothing at the mouth. I could tell he was very upset because he wasn't really sitting in a comfortable sitting position - his legs were splayed out, his head was ducked, and he wouldn't even open his eyes. He was still very tangled and I didn't dare reach in, so I let him sit there for a minute. He could have easily darted away. I just stood there and tried not to react or be scared and then he decided he would walk. I took the lead and he walked perfectly, without incident, calm and happy, right at my side.

Here is a video of CM when he had a dog that did the same, in this video the dog was not as bad as yours but it was almost the same behavior

[linkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpi8707WItc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpi8707WItc[/link]

Liesje

Posted : 4/20/2007 11:17:40 AM

Here is a video of CM when he had a dog that did the same, in this video the dog was not as bad as yours but it was almost the same behavior

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpi8707WItc

I don't have sound on this computer (at work) and I haven't seen that episode yet, but that's what Charlie did, except he's tall and was standing up completely and then started snapping at whatever was restraining him (me and the leash).

I'll go on my laptop and see if I have that full episode, then tomorrow I will try Charlie again with my leather gloves on (I usually wear them, but didn't yesterday and now I have blisters all over my palm and fingers from holding the lead so tight).

spiritdogs

Posted : 4/20/2007 11:22:04 AM

I've walked him before, so I know he's used to a leash. He kept pulling off to the side, insisting on sniffing certain areas. I gave him a tug back and he just SNAPPED. He went absolutely apeshit. He was leaping in the air, tossing his head, doing the "fish" thing, but he's taller than me when he stands and probably weighs about the same. We are required to use slip leads and he had no other collar on, so I reached up to grab the lead at his neck so I could hold him arm's length away and avoid his lunges. He'd gotten so tangled in the rest of the lead, he was going from acting up to panicking. He started growling and was lunging for my throat.

Regardless of the issues involved here in "mastering the walk", the only thing I could think of when I read your post was that I wondered what this dog's unsuspecting adoptive family would have done the first day he came home with them if the same thing would have happened...reminded me of the "save them all" thread. Is this dog getting any remedial training, or just being exercised every day?

Ixas_girl

Posted : 4/20/2007 11:31:02 AM

Beautiful! What lovely stories, I am delighted to read them! So much to say, thank you for sharing ... dashing off to work, back in a bit.

Posters: please ignore any posts that seek to challenge and disturb the really beautiful environment of sharing here.

Here's a link for discussing leash aggression: http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=313840

Thanks.

Liesje

Posted : 4/20/2007 11:55:36 AM

Regardless of the issues involved here in "mastering the walk", the only thing I could think of when I read your post was that I wondered what this dog's unsuspecting adoptive family would have done the first day he came home with them if the same thing would have happened...reminded me of the "save them all" thread. Is this dog getting any remedial training, or just being exercised every day?

I was thinking the same things myself. I'll just explain what I know about him and maybe you can shed more light on it that I can by making assumptions. He's been there for almost a month now and has always been keneled with "Shadow" a VERY shy, timid BC mix. Charlie is definitely the more dominant dog, though I've never seen him try to "dominate" Shadow. We get a lot of abused dogs with no confidence and the behaviorist likes to try to pair them with a more carefree dog to keep them socialized and boost their confidence. Shadow was not in the kennel yesterday, so she was either out with someone else, out at an event, or maybe got adopted. Anyway, Charlie is actually one of the easier dogs to get out of the kennel. Typically, I crouch down, open the door about two inches, use my right hand to get the slip over the dog and my left knee to hold the door shut. They all jump, bark, scratch, snap, and claw like made, but Charlie stands almost perfectly still and lets the slip go over his head. Then he BOUNDS out of the kennel door. Now that I've been volunteering for a while and sort of have "my ways" of how I do things, I've been focusing on trying to do everything I can to stop the hyperactive behavior. So as soon as he bounded out, I corrected him and asked him to sit. Then we go to the building door, where I now make the dog let ME go out first, and then into the fenced dog run where I let them off the lead to poop and get out some energy. Charlie started bowing and barking at the neighbor dog and they ran back and forth together for a long time. Charlie was somewhat interested in fetch, but mostly interested on barking at Gus and running with him. Gus left, so I caught Charlie for a walk. I go out the run gate first, I go out the main gate first. Charlie was not really being bad at all, just kind riled up from playing with Gus. He wanted to pull me into the field so he could sniff things, and I was giving him quick tugs back into place. That's when he went totally nutso on me. After the episode, he was just sitting there like he had given up. My husband was coming out with a hound and I told him to stop because at that point Charlie was still tangled and I didn't want the lunging to start again. Once he opened his eyes and would look at me again, we went on the walk and all was well. No tugging, no lunging, nothing bad at all.

I don't know, we've walked him before and saw nothing like this. Usually I take Shadow because she's afraid of my husband, and he takes Charlie. He's kind of a bad walker in that he doesn't correct the dog and lets the dog get way ahead of him and pull, but I've never seen Charlie go psycho before.

If I had to explain it based on my gut feeling, I'd say that he was a combination of frustration from being a larger, more active dog cooped up in a cell all day, over-stimulation from getting all keyed up running with Gus and being constantly stimulated by all the other dogs and people passing his kennel, and a panic reaction once he started acting up and then got all tangled in the lead and was being held by me. I've never, ever thought of him as an aggressive or even leash reactive dog. My guess is that he was probably "too much energy" for his previous home, who probably used a regular nylon collar down by his shoulders and let him pull and pull and then decided HE is the problem, and now I come along with my slip lead and am not willing to give him an inch, he wanted to put up a bit of a fight, but ended up scaring himself.

I will take him tomorrow and watch more closely....