mastering the walk

A pestering question for most of us, especially city folks:

If I need to use the leash for exercise, how do I move a lot and move fast, then switch to controlled training with behavior restrictions?

If the order of concepts for dogs is exercise - discipline - affection, but I've got to use the leash to do the first step, that means I've got to use the leash improperly for exercise till the dog has learned to walk properly? Otherwise, my dog won't get exercise for the 2 or so weeks I am training her up the steps (using the Boyke description Angelique referred to).

Do I use a diffferent collar and lead for exercise than for training as a way to keep from undermining the training sessions?

For example, I take Ixa to the park a few blocks away on a flat collar and lightweight lead with loops that I can hold at 2' for walking and 20' for roaming the park. We walk "kinda loose leash" on the way to the park, with a few stops or turns to adjust for pulling. We go jog laps and run around at park. Now she's exercised and ready for training. If we're still at the 0-1 level of the 5 training steps and maybe moving no more than about 20', do I take her home and work the steps there? Do I work her a little on the walk home, then just "change gears" to get home? Should I change equipment to signal the expected behavior change? Should I drive to the park to avoid the "kinda loose leash" segment of the outing?

Or have I got this all bass ackwards ... should I be able to get through those 0-5 steps in one day? (Although isn't that asking a lot with a reactive dog and a green handler?)

ORIGINAL: DPU

Just an idea too, but how about the opposite.  I video Marvin the Hound on a walk and you all comment why this would be the wrong technique.  If time permits this weekend and I have help, I can create a video.

Fine, but would you mind posting it to the clicker threads, or the "everything" thread, so I don't get in trouble here...? []

ORIGINAL: Ixas_girl

A pestering question for most of us, especially city folks:

If I need to use the leash for exercise, how do I move a lot and move fast, then switch to controlled training with behavior restrictions?

If the order of concepts for dogs is exercise - discipline - affection, but I've got to use the leash to do the first step, that means I've got to use the leash improperly for exercise till the dog has learned to walk properly? Otherwise, my dog won't get exercise for the 2 or so weeks I am training her up the steps (using the Boyke description Angelique referred to).

Do I use a diffferent collar and lead for exercise than for training as a way to keep from undermining the training sessions?

For example, I take Ixa to the park a few blocks away on a flat collar and lightweight lead with loops that I can hold at 2' for walking and 20' for roaming the park. We walk "kinda loose leash" on the way to the park, with a few stops or turns to adjust for pulling. We go jog laps and run around at park. Now she's exercised and ready for training. If we're still at the 0-1 level of the 5 training steps and maybe moving no more than about 20', do I take her home and work the steps there? Do I work her a little on the walk home, then just "change gears" to get home? Should I change equipment to signal the expected behavior change? Should I drive to the park to avoid the "kinda loose leash" segment of the outing?

Or have I got this all bass ackwards ... should I be able to get through those 0-5 steps in one day? (Although isn't that asking a lot with a reactive dog and a green handler?)

To answer you, I'd probably need to write a book LOL.  Fortunately, Emma Parsons already has.  I would get her "Click to Calm" and also Ali Brown's "Scaredy Dog". How interesting are you compared to the environment you find yourselves in?  If your dog cannot pay attention to you, you are not training, you are merely teaching her that she is on her own, and can ignore you.  Figure out how you can get farther from the distractions at first. 

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

Fine, but would you mind posting it to the clicker threads, or the "everything" thread, so I don't get in trouble here...? []

 
But, but, but...Cesar does not "train" dogs. There are areas of operant and classical conditioning which need to be combined with what Cesar teaches.
 
I see a great middle ground which we are only starting to see when we discuss all of the different perspectives, where everything has a time and place depending upon what you are trying to achieve with a given dog in a given moment.
 
It's not "either/or", but "when, where, how, and why?". []
 
 
 
 

ORIGINAL: Angelique


But, but, but...Cesar does not "train" dogs. There are areas of operant and classical conditioning which need to be combined with what Cesar teaches.

I see a great middle ground which we are only starting to see when we discuss all of the different perspectives, where everything has a time and place depending upon what you are trying to achieve with a given dog in a given moment.

It's not "either/or", but "when, where, how, and why?". []

Agree, but i can see +R people getting mad because DPU didnt let the dog go out the door first, if DPU post it on both forums then we can give our point of view without having to give explanations about why is "wrong" for them

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

ORIGINAL: Ixas_girl

A pestering question for most of us, especially city folks:

If I need to use the leash for exercise, how do I move a lot and move fast, then switch to controlled training with behavior restrictions?

I would get her "Click to Calm" and also Ali Brown's "Scaredy Dog". How interesting are you compared to the environment you find yourselves in? If your dog cannot pay attention to you, you are not training, you are merely teaching her that she is on her own, and can ignore you. Figure out how you can get farther from the distractions at first.

I'm sorry, I'm not getting how this addresses the getting exercise question! [] I've read the fabulous "Scaredy Dog", and it doesn't address it either.

Anyone ....?

ORIGINAL: Angelique

I see a great middle ground which we are only starting to see when we discuss all of the different perspectives, where everything has a time and place depending upon what you are trying to achieve with a given dog in a given moment.

It's not "either/or", but "when, where, how, and why?". []

I'm really interested and appreciative when I get to have a peek at that, too.

ORIGINAL: Ixas_girl

I'm sorry, I'm not getting how this addresses the getting exercise question! [] I've read the fabulous "Scaredy Dog", and it doesn't address it either.

Anyone ....?

I start with setting the dog up for success. An excited dog will not settle into the walk as well as a dog who's had it's energy drained a bit with a training or play session before the walk.

Linn's steps are one approach, and a good one. Another is to wear the dog out a bit and use turns and a reverse of direction to get them to pay attention to you for the changes, starting with a little more momentum until you ask for self-control from the dog. Linn is describing a more calm and step by step approach, where moving out at a brisk pace and setting a boundary point in order to expend excess energy before you ask a dog to settle in, also has it's values.

I think it's kind of a balancing act sometimes. I use both approaches, depending on the dog.

ORIGINAL: Ixas_girl

I'm sorry, I'm not getting how this addresses the getting exercise question! [] I've read the fabulous "Scaredy Dog", and it doesn't address it either.

Anyone ....?

You dont need to move faster to have your dog do more excersice, buy a doggy back pack, you can fill it with bottles of water, he will drain more energy that way and the dog will feel he has a job to do []

ORIGINAL: espencer

ORIGINAL: Ixas_girl

I'm sorry, I'm not getting how this addresses the getting exercise question! [] I've read the fabulous "Scaredy Dog", and it doesn't address it either.

Anyone ....?

You dont need to move faster to have your dog do more excersice, buy a doggy back pack, you can fill it with bottles of water, he will drain more energy that way and the dog will feel he has a job to do []

 
Mmmmm, backpacks! One of the best tips I've snagged from Cesar! []
 
Good point. Not only does a backpack give the dog's mind the task of "carrying", add a couple of water bottles and they're great for taking the energy level down.
 
I also use them as an "association" tool, much as horse-folks use different "tack" to communicate the task at hand to the horse...I want the dog to associate backpack=focus on task and leader/ignore distractions/working mode.

[] Ooh la la! Very helpful! []

Ok, so the leash relationship is a constant; no "excercise first, training later". I like Ixa's energy, so I'll stick with the circle and reverse corrections I've been doing - *with a backpack!!!*

I'll try the suggestion of doing training sessions before the walk, too - I wish I would have figured that one out, great solution!

Any of you guys listen to the Bob & Tom show on the radio? It's a syndicated morning radio comedy/chat show. Anyway, I was listening this morning and Christie, the news lady was talking about how much a backpack helped her hyper doodle (goldendoodle or labradoodle, can't remember). She talked about how she just puts it on her and she's like a different dog. Christie will have the dog carry laundry to the washer or carry her stuff around the yard. She doesn't even walk her with it and it helps calm her dog down and put her into a different mindset.

Oh, putting a backpack on Ella changes her almost COMPLETELY. But I have a very obvious working dog.
My dog is a completely different dog, period, while working.
It's like I can almost see the change move over her the second I put it on her.
But, man, that thing is a PAIN IN THE BUTT to get on her. Well, she gets ALL excited and decides that while I put it on her, that's the time she wants to wag her tail (this ends up being an entire butt wag, as anyone with pitties knows) and lick my face.

Ok, I failed today...couldn't get Marvin outside the yard.  He was pretty good at the gate and sat there but the other dogs would not let us leave.  At this stage, I had a hard time holding the camera.  I am going to have to take Marvin someplace else without his pack to mess things up.  I will try tomorrow.  Enjoy the videos.
 
Marvin Video#1
[linkhttp://s97.photobucket.com/albums/l240/DPU_2006/?action=view¤t=MOV00134.flv]http://s97.photobucket.com/albums/l240/DPU_2006/?action=view¤t=MOV00134.flv[/link]
 
Marvin Video#2
[linkhttp://s97.photobucket.com/albums/l240/DPU_2006/?action=view¤t=MOV00135.flv]http://s97.photobucket.com/albums/l240/DPU_2006/?action=view¤t=MOV00135.flv[/link]
 
Marvin Video#3
[linkhttp://s97.photobucket.com/albums/l240/DPU_2006/?action=view¤t=MOV00140.flv]http://s97.photobucket.com/albums/l240/DPU_2006/?action=view¤t=MOV00140.flv[/link]
 

Yay you said my name in the second video []

Ok now, i saw that you let all the dogs out, is there a way that you can take only Marvin out, the rest of the pack is indeed preventing him to be calm (you can still make the entire pack calm but lets go with the easy way right now)

If you take only Marvin out to the backyard then like i said the rest of the pack wont make the things so "difficult", they wont be distracting him and making him be playful, i feel that you were a little bit rushed at the moment of putting the collar and the harness on, again i think because the whole pack gave you and him a little moment of space, placing the collar and harness while "rushing" helps to feed the excitement, he then gets excited to go out and that excitement travels towards the whole pack, thats why when you finished placing the harness everybody started running around again

Good thing that you praised him because he was waiting seated while you were placing the things, you leveled up the excitement just a little bit by calling his name in a little excited way but thats easy to correct

So far what we've learned? not to take the whole pack out if we are going to work with only one dog this time, that will help a lot, call his name also in a calm way and not to rush to place the equipment on

Right now just do what you do normally and we can start from there

You are doing a good job right now, it was only a couple details that can be fixed right away []