mastering the walk

Isn't the use of "master" outdated too?

Point well taken Jaime.
 
Lets stay on topic here, if anyone can still remember what it is, so that the thread doesn't need to be closed again.

Oh s***, why is it that living with dogs is so complicated?

ORIGINAL: Tilt

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

Perhaps you can tell me what Cesar does...wrong?

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah and is wrong Blah Blah

Stay on topic indeed Glenda (i edited Tilt post)

ORIGINAL: DPU

Isn't the use of "master" outdated too?

 
Would you prefer....."Perfect the walk?"

ORIGINAL: amstaffy

ORIGINAL: DPU

Isn't the use of "master" outdated too?

Would you prefer....."Perfect the walk?"

 
Grammatically, it should be "Perfecting the walk".

Touche'
 
BTW....LOVE the new siggy!!!!

Sorry Tilt, I've read all of this before. []

Let's not drag the different factions, politics, and dog training "wars" into this. Cesar is mostly a victim because he is a visual and public figure.

These same factions are still waging the same war of the methodologies, with or without Cesar.

Each person must read through the agendas, gain knowledge from many independant sources, and make up their own minds.

There are many areas of the forum to explore and enjoy which fit each person's viewpoint and understanding.

The sharing of personal experiences is always helpful in understanding and finding a common ground.

But, welcome to the CM area anyway! Read and learn. Take what you like and leave the rest! []

PS Your avitar looks very familiar, but I don't remember where we've met. [8D]

I guess what I fail to see is why anyone would feel the need to "perfect the walk" or "perfect" any other gait the dog has.  To me, the object of this exercise as practiced by CM is to establish leadership.  But, if my dogs already view me as a leader, why the heck should I care if they walk behind me and don't get to sniff the sidewalk, especially since they will come along and walk nicely on leash whenever they are asked to do that?  To be honest, I don't see how any human can walk or even trot long enough to give the average dog the exercise it needs.  My dogs get more of a workout doing other things.  And the idea that a "leadership walk" is necessary is foreign to me because I practice a benevolent form of NILIF every day.  Do you really think this is all that important so long as you already have your dogs' respect and they get exercise in other ways?  Maybe this works for CM because he lives in LA, but I live in a suburb with quiet roads, fields, farms and parks...

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

 Do you really think this is all that important so long as you already have your dogs' respect and they get exercise in other ways? 

 
 
It seems that most of the time Cesar is addressing people who don't already have their dog's respect.  I haven't seen too many episodes of the show where Cesar is dealing with people who have dogs that respect them.  If person's dogs already respect them and have no issues, why would a person bother changing things?  Cesar is just offering his philosophy.  There are lots of others to choose from.
 
Also, I'm not sure if excercise is the only thing Cesar is trying to accomplish on his walks.  If the walks are supposed to be a leadership excercise, then it makes sense that the dogs would have to follow rules during the excercise.  Similarly, if a dog was in a training session, wouldn't the dog be required to follow rules and do what was expected?  I guess I don't see how asking a dog to follow rules during a walk is that different from asking a dog to sit before getting treat during a training session.

OK, I just had a lightbulb moment.  I knew, but I'd forgotten in all the shouting, that CM works with troubled dogs...sorry, can't think of another phrase for it.  I think what bothers me the most is that the edited for TV version makes it look like almost instant results AND there are still the kinder gentler ways of doing things that are being ignored.  I strongly suspect that Anne or Mic could take any of these dogs and "shape them up", but I am pretty sure it would take longer and without the dramatic turn around we see on TV.  And maybe that's my biggest objection, the "instant gratification" aspect of this.....that and the not so gentle methods that he uses.
 
I'm a pretty gentle person.  Even years and years ago where common knowledge was the you house BROKE a pup by swatting with the rolled up newspaper and rubbing his nose in the mess I just could not do that.  It seemed cruel to me and rather counterproductive to rub the little nose in a pile of poop and then not be able to get those sweet little kisses.  And even with my sons....the very WORST "punishment" I could dole out was to look them in the eye and tell them "I'm very dissappointed in your choice"...never in YOU because you attack the behavior and not the child (or dog), but man, that was so totally effective.  And of course I went through the ranting, raving and blowing my top and actually stumbled on THAT tool rather accidentally.  But it worked and worked exceedingly well and it translates very nicely into dog training.
 
And, I guess the bottom line and what disturbs me the most is that people don't do their danged jobs as owners and TRAIN the dog themselves and then choose a method that is probably a bit outdated because it's so high profile and touted as "the best" when the animal gets wildly out of control.
 
Sheba is fearful and reactive.  Had I used CM's methods I suspect she would still be fearful but perhaps not physically reactive.  I think that most of the stuff he does would have caused MORE fear, not less, and given her personality, I think she would have flat shut down with rough treatment.  So the "one size fits all" attitude, and I'm not sure if it's CM's or that of his followers, bothers me. Even with the +R behavioralist I found myself saying "I'm not comfortable with that" and HE said, fine, lets fine a method that works for Sheba AND for you.
 
OK, I've written my book this morning.  And espencer, I think that Tilt's post was in answer to the direct question what does Cesar do wrong?  Yep, it's off topic, but the question was posed and s/he answered it per HER opinion.  And that's soemthing we all have plenty of.

I've read lots of posts by Mic and didn't come away with the impression that he uses all gentle (or even any) methods.   If I remember correctly he exercises his dogs quite hard and crates for a good portion of the day.  I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this for his dogs but it seemed quite in tune with what CM does.

ORIGINAL: willowchow

I've read lots of posts by Mic and didn't come away with the impression that he uses all gentle (or even any) methods.   If I remember correctly he exercises his dogs quite hard and crates for a good portion of the day.  I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this for his dogs but it seemed quite in tune with what CM does.

Exercise, even strenuous (age appropriate) exercise, and crate time, are not averse to a positive reinforcement method of training.   I think that Mic probably does use a lot of that with his dogs, too, tempered with a leadership technique (forgive me, not speaking for him) that he may, at least partially, have borrowed from Jan Fennell, not CM.

Sheba is fearful and reactive. Had I used CM's methods I suspect she would still be fearful but perhaps not physically reactive. I think that most of the stuff he does would have caused MORE fear, not less, and given her personality, I think she would have flat shut down with rough treatment. So the "one size fits all" attitude, and I'm not sure if it's CM's or that of his followers, bothers me. Even with the +R behavioralist I found myself saying "I'm not comfortable with that" and HE said, fine, lets fine a method that works for Sheba AND for you.

 
Glenda, I have seen CM work with extreme messed up dogs, like the one that didn't want to come out of his crate....I remember CM sitting next to the crate and letting the dog come to him. I think he can pick up on what a dog is feeling at the time, and apply the proper method.

Maybe he could.  I only wish that *I* could get into their heads and figure them out myself!  She's an absolutely wonderful girl, but she had some bad experiences in a fear stage and that's where a lot of this came from.  What I didn't know has cost her.........