Dog Community

Posted : 4/4/2007 1:16:37 PM

ORIGINAL: glenmar

This is confusing. My dogs clearly see me as their leader, constantly checking back to see where I am, but I do NOT want to run and they do, so I shoo them off to run ahead and play. So because they TAKE my direction to go play and run off, always checking back for my location, that makes me not the leader?

And, yeah, Jaime, I'm with you.....I can walk my brutes without any training toys.....but I was trying to understand and I guess I'm not going to this time around.

There are times doing certain parts of my walk I tell the dogs "free dogs" which means they can goof off. I'm still the leader.

I don't really know what training "toys" are, but I know what training tools are, and when something like a type of collar is called a "training toy"...then the same could be said of leashes.

amstaffy

Posted : 4/4/2007 1:43:25 PM

And, yeah, Jaime, I'm with you.....I can walk my brutes without any training toys.....but I was trying to understand and I guess I'm not going to this time around.

I say consider the source...I see I really didn't miss much while I was gone....training is the first step, I will and have used training tools and as I said previously I can see using such an item on an adult dog who needs help understanding, I guess. It isn't anything I have experience with or intend to look into.
Again, it isn't something I would suggest a "user" to attempt with multiple dogs if they have not learned the basic leash work. Any attempt to walk multiple dogs who are not in control is setting themselves and their dogs up for failure or worse yet damages

mudpuppy

Posted : 4/4/2007 2:30:26 PM

Actually, mudpuppy, I'm just trying to figure out why you would need, not just one, but two or more?

I don't know Glenda. Maybe if you're a professional dog walker and have to walk a bunch of other people's untrained dogs?

mudpuppy

Posted : 4/4/2007 2:35:45 PM

This is confusing. My dogs clearly see me as their leader, constantly checking back to see where I am, but I do NOT want to run and they do, so I shoo them off to run ahead and play. So because they TAKE my direction to go play and run off, always checking back for my location, that makes me not the leader?

I do this too. Anyone who has ever walked a dog off-leash has this experience.

Awsomedog

Posted : 4/4/2007 2:38:25 PM

While I walk multiple dogs at a time, I will only add 2 to the mix who have issues because I can handle that. If there's more than 2 with issues they will have to be handled separately, then be added to the pack.

Awsomedog

Posted : 4/4/2007 2:39:52 PM

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

I do this too. Anyone who has ever walked a dog off-leash has this experience.

Well...not anyone. I seen many people chasing their off leash dogs.[

]

dlg81

Posted : 4/4/2007 2:40:45 PM

ORIGINAL: glenmar

This is confusing. My dogs clearly see me as their leader, constantly checking back to see where I am, but I do NOT want to run and they do, so I shoo them off to run ahead and play. So because they TAKE my direction to go play and run off, always checking back for my location, that makes me not the leader?

And, yeah, Jaime, I'm with you.....I can walk my brutes without any training toys.....but I was trying to understand and I guess I'm not going to this time around.

Cesar mentions, both in his book and on his show, that it's fine to let the dogs be ahead of you or go off on their own as long as you give them the direction to do that.

As far as I know the collar is to be used as a tool for people who haven't "mastered the walk." You and a lot of other people on this board are experienced dog people who can walk your pack without tools. I think the collar is being marketed to people who cannot do that or have the occasional trouble with a new dog that might be a little difficult.

espencer

Posted : 4/4/2007 2:44:40 PM

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Actually, mudpuppy, I'm just trying to figure out why you would need, not just one, but two or more? I could almost see a trainer with a new to him dog needing a bit of "help" to establish pack order (I think that's the way it's looked at) but I don't understand wanting to walk to or more oppositional dogs who haven't learned yet at the same time?

Yeap you are really confused, if the dog is too much trouble you walk him along with an already balanced dog so the new dog can pick up the behavior, you can walk two non trained dogs if they are not too unbalanced

mudpuppy

Posted : 4/4/2007 2:53:23 PM

that it's fine to let the dogs be ahead of you or go off on their own as long as you give them the direction to do that. As far as I know the collar is to be used as a tool for people who haven't "mastered the walk."

now I'm even more confused. "mastering the walk" is supposedly based on the bizzarre idea that submissive dogs naturally "walk at the same pace as, but slightly behind the leader"? Something I've never observed happening in years of watching dogs. But let's

retend we believe it and move on. If your submissive dog naturally stays behind you, you therefore would have to teach the dog some kind of command to get the dog to move out ahead of you. But no one does. They release the dog (either from leash control or verbal control), and off the dog goes, ahead of the leader. Naturally.

mudpuppy

Posted : 4/4/2007 2:57:13 PM

if the dog is too much trouble you walk him along with an already balanced dog so the new dog can pick up the behavior,

Interesting. I often walk my neighbor's troublesome pup on leash, with another dog off-leash heeling, and I can't say I ever noticed him "picking up" the behavior.

espencer

Posted : 4/4/2007 3:11:49 PM

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

now I'm even more confused. "mastering the walk" is supposedly based on the bizzarre idea that submissive dogs naturally "walk at the same pace as, but slightly behind the leader"? Something I've never observed happening in years of watching dogs. But let's retend we believe it and move on. If your submissive dog naturally stays behind you, you therefore would have to teach the dog some kind of command to get the dog to move out ahead of you. But no one does. They release the dog (either from leash control or verbal control), and off the dog goes, ahead of the leader. Naturally.

I just remembered a good friend that has a terrible ADD problem [

], where were we? oh yes

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

A team of sled dogs know they are *doing their job*, their not pulling the sled because they decided to on their own. Same as a bomb sniffing dog who walks at the side of the handler until they're told, *go to work*, then they go out front. same as a pack of dogs who follow their leader to the hunting grounds of their prey, once they get their...they do their *job*. To dogs...it's just that simple.

amstaffy

Posted : 4/4/2007 3:36:49 PM

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

now I'm even more confused. "mastering the walk" is supposedly based on the bizzarre idea that submissive dogs naturally "walk at the same pace as, but slightly behind the leader"? Something I've never observed happening in years of watching dogs. But let's retend we believe it and move on. If your submissive dog naturally stays behind you, you therefore would have to teach the dog some kind of command to get the dog to move out ahead of you. But no one does. They release the dog (either from leash control or verbal control), and off the dog goes, ahead of the leader. Naturally.

Bubba, My oldest Frenchie is more of a "follower" I say follower as he is really not submissive, he tends to be behind me when I am taking the four frenchies from the play area and walking them up to the house...Daisy, Juliet,Teddy and Bubba on lead while Honey runs loose...Bubba will move forward but continue to stay behind the rest of the pack. The two on lead girls act as if they are in a sled team but will not drag me..it was pretty funny when we had snow...too bad I didn't get any pictures...

mudpuppy

Posted : 4/4/2007 3:52:31 PM

Baxter likes to walk in the rear of the pack, directly behind me. I think he just likes to keep everyone in sight. Also he clearly feels he needs to protect me. He's the alpha male, so it's unlikely his following behavior has anything to do with submission. He's also the only dog I've ever owned or walked with (we often meet up with other dog owners on our off-leash walks) that didn't walk off-leash by running ahead of the humans, stopping to sniff, being passed by the humans, and then racing off ahead of the humans again.

glenmar

Posted : 4/4/2007 4:27:12 PM

espencer I'm not going to name names, however, you can poke through a few of the CM threads and see who's been eager to attack when I do post. Jaime made it VERY clear that all of us are welcome in this area, but honestly dropping by here is like dropping by a private club and having everyone STARE at you for daring to intrude........and then sniping at you. It's certainly not a very welcoming place unless you are a club member.

And HEAVEN forbid that I post a warning or (shudder) actually put a thread in time out.....then I'm a Nazi.......that kind of behavior in other parts of the forum would get a suspension.[

]

amstaffy

Posted : 4/4/2007 6:10:10 PM

Did I miss the attack?

Mudpuppy,
I feel the same way about Bubba, I would never allow him off lead though, he has a wondering/ignoring side to him. He will walk behind me or when I get on him, move out in front of me but behind the rest, Teddy usually ends up someplace in the middle...I wish I could get out and get a picture of this to show who is the leaders.....the youngest girls

A Problem with the I Collar