Cultural Differences

ORIGINAL: eley

I was re-reading the entire thread and something just hit me. Some time ago, a friend of mine from Mexico was visiting, and asked me if it wasn't too dangerous living in the US, and I asked "what do you mean?", so he started talking about some horrible crime he'd seen in the news the night before. Mind you, what he described wasn't any crime that will make the history books, just you usual 6 oclock news sort of material. And I got to think, in Mexico you hear about that sort of thing all the time, it's just that they don't dramatize and make it the center of attention, they report pretty blandly that it happened, and they move on to talk about the stock market or whatever, here in the US we start hearing "hear about the brutal crime that shook the community, tonight on channel __ at 6" about an hour before the actual news reports start .

So, if it's true that materialism is a part of american culture and yes, we spend more money on our dogs etc here than in Mexico at least, we also pay attention and focus on different things. Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen more or less "problem dogs" here than in Mexico, I just happen to notice them more here.

I said in one of my previous posts that people in Mexico don't pay as much attention to their dogs as we do here, so, by that rationality, couldn't it be that there are as many dogs with problems in Mexico, just no one actually cares? or seen from another perspective, we make too much of a big deal about dog related problems. That would be an interesting cultural difference, "what is percieved as a dog problem?".

I mentioned in a previous post that my parents looked at me like I was crazy when I mentioned about my dogs reactivity and the behaviourist, and they actually offered a solution: "keep your dog away from other dogs, end of problem".

I tend to agree with your evaluation.  It's all about perception.

A balanced dog is in the state Mother Nature wants it to be in – as a calm-submissive pack follower, who is fulfilled physically with exercise; psychologically with rules, boundaries and limitations; and emotionally with affection from its owner.

Given that a lot of scientific research suggests that domestic dogs even when not living with humans are usually semi-solitary animals without a strict pack structure and hierarchy, and also given that Mother Nature is not an actual thing but rather a human-made idea (and the same idea used to subjegate women for a very long time), I'm going to have to disagree with this definition.

ORIGINAL: houndlove

A balanced dog is in the state Mother Nature wants it to be in – as a calm-submissive pack follower, who is fulfilled physically with exercise; psychologically with rules, boundaries and limitations; and emotionally with affection from its owner.

Given that a lot of scientific research suggests that domestic dogs even when not living with humans are usually semi-solitary animals without a strict pack structure and hierarchy, and also given that Mother Nature is not an actual thing but rather a human-made idea (and the same idea used to subjegate women for a very long time), I'm going to have to disagree with this definition.

 
The beauty of personal research and intelligent, independant thought, is the ability to choose what is actual "scientific" research, or a picked-over study which is slanted to prove a point. [8D]
 
And, the beauty of a mixed dog board, is a variety of different opinions, philosophies, and forums so that we can choose what personally makes sense to us. []

ORIGINAL: espencer

...but like i said in the beginning, the amount of dogs with problems are significantly more in USA that in another countries

 
We've got more people, more owners, obviously a lot more dogs.  If one were to break it down proportionately in comparison
to other countries and the numbers of dogs, I think you will find the amount of problems would then level out.
 
You mentioned we have a tendency to treat our dogs like children or family.  Maybe that just goes to show we treat our dogs
with more compassion and respect. And, that is why if one took the time to break the numbers down proportionately in regards to "problems", you'll indeed find the better trained, better behaved dogs right here in the US.  The better trained, better behaved dog stems from the compassion and respect.
 
I've read the forums over at ChampDogs in the UK.  They have their share of problems too, but yet the discipline seems far less of a concern.  I get the impression sometimes they would much rather just allow their dogs to piss all over the house rather apply some discipline.  I think we are much more concerned about having well trained, well behaved dogs as opposed to those in other countries.
 
CC

ORIGINAL: cc431


You mentioned we have a tendency to treat our dogs like children or family.  Maybe that just goes to show we treat our dogs
with more compassion and respect. And, that is why if one took the time to break the numbers down proportionately in regards to "problems", you'll indeed find the better trained, better behaved dogs right here in the US.  The better trained, better behaved dog stems from the compassion and respect.

I've read the forums over at ChampDogs in the UK.  They have their share of problems too, but yet the discipline seems far less of a concern.  I get the impression sometimes they would much rather just allow their dogs to piss all over the house rather apply some discipline.  I think we are much more concerned about having well trained, well behaved dogs as opposed to those in other countries.

CC

Totally untrue, in other contries people respect the dogs too, have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less training than USA dogs but beheave better, why? because they compensate less training with way more discipline,  in other countries people treat dogs as dogs not as humans

Propaganda - has nothing to do with factual information of any kind that has been proven scientifically. 
Firstly, you need to define what "well-behaved" means.  That can mean anything from "not a public nuisance" to "obedience trial champion".  Probably the USA & the UK would have a higher percentage of the latter, since those countries have a generally higher standard of living, thus more folks who can afford lessons, competition, and travel. 
I disagree that "discipline" is more important than training.  Discipline will shut a dog down, and no behavior is often perceived as good behavior.  However, good training produces a well behaved dog, and we certainly have more qualified trainers in this country than ever before, and the number is growing. 
What amazes me is that you worry so much about behavior, and not about the sheer numbers of strays in other countries that exceed even our worst case scenarios, because so many people in those countries haven't even gotten on the spay/neuter bandwagon yet.  If you want to dis a country, find one that is so overrun with strays that they shoot the dogs in the streets daily, not one that is at least trying to solve the problem.

I think there are cultural, but also generational, philosophical, educational, and locational differences if you were to look at actual percentage and ratio (data) which has been gathered in a study.
 
There are always what some might consider "normal", but we may take issue with it, based on our own perspectives and experiences.
 
I remember a HUGE debate over North Korea wanting to export dog-meat (not meat for dogs, meat made out of dogs, for human consumtion). Do you really think that would go over well where the "majority" of folks view their dogs as family members? 
 
I think part of it has to do with statistics, averages, and what is considered the "norm" in any given culture, generation, or location.
 
Oddly enough, I have pet chickens, I eat chicken, but I do not eat my chickens...I do feel kinda funny eating chicken strips in front of them though. [8D]

Maybe those are the countries espencer is comparing with the USA?  This is in reference to those countries that treat dogs like dogs and the result is better behaved dogs with less training and more discipline?  The countries like you describe serving up dog meat for human consumption.  Maybe those are the countries espencer has in mind?   So I know this fellow that went over to the Philippines.  He said he wanted to try the dog meat thing.  Stop reading now if squeamish.  For a sum of 5 dollars a man proceeded to prepare and cook the dog, right there on the sidewalk, in front of the kids.  Sad, but true story...are these the countries espencer is comparing with the US?  Maybe all the dogs seem so well trained because they have to run for cover all the time?

Maybe all the dogs seem so well trained because they have to run for cover all the time?

 
Well-behaved, untrained homeless dog that winds up as dog suey? Maybe there aren't as many dogs over there because the loose ones are hunted for dinner. It also has a lot to do with what is expected in that country. A well-trained authentic Siberian Husky in Northeastern Siberia would eat CM's lunch. What is expected of an american household dog is different than what is expected of a draught animal. It's great to compare cultural differences but I don't think one country is better than another. And perhaps the problem could be phrased in a way different than saying americans are neurotic. Let's just say that some people start out not knowing how to lead their dog.

Let's just say that some people start out not knowing how to lead their dog.

..or that what may be a problem for some, may be pretty irrelevant to others.

Totally untrue, in other contries people respect the dogs too, have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less training than USA dogs but beheave better

..and we know this how? what are we talking about with "dogs behave better"?

A cultural difference is what kind of meat used in food prep.  Like the Irish have the tradition of boiled dinner using brisket, corned beef and cabbage. 

(editing in to say "some N. Americans  enjoy this")  North Americans also enjoy this a lot, and the price goes way up for St Patrick's day!  It is sure good.  We actually call it New England boiled dinner here sometimes.  So, it is tradition but not really a continental cultural thing.  Having family in mid-west, we know they have never even heard of NE boiled dinner.  And I am not sure that they like it so hot either.

I am pretty sure you won't find the dog eating culture too often in the USA.  That is a rather nice feature about American culture differences!!!

ORIGINAL: espencer
Totally untrue, in other contries people respect the dogs too, have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less training than USA dogs but beheave better, why? because they compensate less training with way more discipline,  in other countries people treat dogs as dogs not as humans

What countries are you talking about.  Give me statistics on spay/neuter for those countries.  Give me stats on whether eating dogs is culturally acceptable in those countries.  Tell me how euthanasia is performed in those countries.  Get specific, and cite your sources, or take your unsubstantiated criticism right back where it came from. 

Wow, this thread has literally gone to the dogs[8D]
 
I think one of the biggest problems in this country is the fact that dogs are not allowed to be dogs anymore. They have to sit still, running or romping not allowed, or like some people mentioned shouldn't do the natural things like barking, howling and many more natural, hard wired behaviors. Add the pampering factor ( in excess that is), not enough exercise, lack of discipline and you have a recipe for disaster.
 
 

Wow, this thread has literally gone to the dogs

 
I am pretty sure it actually started this way.  The system being used to say what is a cultural percentage is by far inaccurate.  Both by what is called cultural and what is called a percentage. Redefining terminology is also an issue with this thread. 
 
" do the natural things like barking, howling and many more natural, hard wired behaviors. Add the pampering factor ( in excess that is), not enough exercise, lack of discipline and you have a recipe for disaster"
 
I don't know about where you live, but here on my own street and all around me we have a huge number of dogs.  They all bark, howl, run, play.  The owners are fantastic.  We walk our dogs, have fenced in yards, pick up after our dogs.  Have a beach club for a bunch of folks and their dogs to meet and let the "kids play".  They are treated humanely.  Not spoiled stupid, crazed maniacal dogs.  We have many conversations about these creatures, our loyal and trusted friends. 
 
We discuss veterinarians, and health care and food.  The number of people owning dogs is huge in my area.  I do not have the ability to call a country a culture that does this or that.  It is simply too bogus to claim a statement such as started this thread.  You can judge yourself, your area that you live. 
 
Because I travel a lot, and I have, I will refrain from saying .."Italians all treat their dogs well, have great excercise routines."  Because this would be a bogus statement. Perhaps I noticed that dogs were being walked on leashes a lot in Italy, but that is not to say that the dogs had/had not any other great times in their lives.  I know nothing of how the quality of life is for a dog in another area. 
 
What you judge is what is local to yourself.  As Spiritdogs said, you need to support your hypothesis with numbers.  Observations are simply that.  Not factual data.
 

I am glad your dogs have a great life where they can be dogs, mine are in the same situation, I live on 2.5 acres out in the boonies, but you seem to be forgetting the rest of the dog population. The ones that are in the inner city, apartment complexes, developments. I am sure many dog owners were told that their dogs are a problem when barking and howling. Many dogs don't get to run freely, one of my friends lives in an apartment complex, and the problems she has been running into owning a dog are frustrating to say the least.