CM and an SA dog

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

I see where you are going with this, but I still don't think that boredom is the same thing as SA.  Do we at least agree on that?   I mean, if you have a bored dog, and you give him something to do, he stops causing a problem.  But, the SA dog may still damage himself or his surroundings, even if he has lots to do, as soon as he is left alone.

 
Agree, boredom is one thing and SA is another.
 
I think CM knows really well which one is which []

Espencer, I do have on pdf The Canine Separation Anxiety Workbook by James O'Heare, DIP. A.S., C.C.B.T  (anyone know what those initials mean) that I received from my Behaviorist/trainer.

I am curious about something since you are talking about levels of SA.  My fosters rotate because of adoptions.  One foster did not exhibit any SA type behavior prior to Marvin.  Kept kennel in perfect order and p'ed and pooped only outside.  When Marvin exploded (picture), the other foster in the next kennel aslo went on a frenzy of destruction.  So I looked at it as Marvin feeding the behavior of the other dog.  When the other foster was moved to another part of the house, she was ok. 

Now, today, Marvin's SA is managed except for some whining and crying as he is chewing on his bone.  The new dog in the next kennel pick up that same behavior.  What is going on with the 'other' dog?

ORIGINAL: DPU.

Espencer, I do have on pdf The Canine Separation Anxiety Workbook by James O'Heare, DIP. A.S., C.C.B.T  (anyone know what those initials mean) that I received from my Behaviorist/trainer.

I am curious about something since you are talking about levels of SA.  My fosters rotate because of adoptions.  One foster did not exhibit any SA type behavior prior to Marvin.  Kept kennel in perfect order and p'ed and pooped only outside.  When Marvin exploded (picture), the other foster in the next kennel aslo went on a frenzy of destruction.  So I looked at it as Marvin feeding the behavior of the other dog.  When the other foster was moved to another part of the house, she was ok. 

Now, today, Marvin's SA is managed except for some whining and crying as he is chewing on his bone.  The new dog in the next kennel pick up that same behavior.  What is going on with the 'other' dog?

 
So the "new dog in the next kennel" is a different dog than the one that was moved to another part of the house because was picking up Marvin's behavior?
 
It can be for two reasons, one, yes this one is also picking up Marvin's behavior, or two, you are the one feeding the SA without knowing
 
What exactly do you do before you leave? you just leave or you make a big deal about it? 
 
Like some posters said, maybe is not SA and is more about dogs that need to be excersiced in the morning before you leave them alone, they have pent up energy and that behavior is the one that helps them to release that energy, do they excersice in the morning?

No don't get me wrong.  Marvin's SA is managed.  It is a careful choreograph of exercise, socializing, rest time, kennel enclosure comfort, cloth comfort, den, edible chews, chew toys, arrival and departure routine.  There might be a couple more.  The balancing of those items will change depending on for example, it is raining, or it is not a workweek day, etc.   
 
What I observed was that different dogs in the next kennel mimic Marvin's behavior as that behavior was moving toward managed.  So I thought it was interesting when you and Spiritsdog conversed about the different levels of SA and whether or not a dog has true SA.  Marvin has SA.  The dog in the next kennel does not have SA but mimics the anxiety.  So there is a chance that whatever I do to change the other dog's behavior it will continue mimicing Marvin's.  Weird logic no?

I wonder if it is simply a matter of the older dog feeling her packmate's (Marvin's) anxiety and getting herself in a panic, wondering what Marvin is reacting to...

ORIGINAL: DPU.

Espencer, I do have on pdf The Canine Separation Anxiety Workbook by James O'Heare, DIP. A.S., C.C.B.T  (anyone know what those initials mean) that I received from my Behaviorist/trainer.

I am curious about something since you are talking about levels of SA.  My fosters rotate because of adoptions.  One foster did not exhibit any SA type behavior prior to Marvin.  Kept kennel in perfect order and p'ed and pooped only outside.  When Marvin exploded (picture), the other foster in the next kennel aslo went on a frenzy of destruction.  So I looked at it as Marvin feeding the behavior of the other dog.  When the other foster was moved to another part of the house, she was ok. 

Now, today, Marvin's SA is managed except for some whining and crying as he is chewing on his bone.  The new dog in the next kennel pick up that same behavior.  What is going on with the 'other' dog?

Those "initials" are explained on the Cynology College website.  I do know that James O'Heare has a Ph.D. also.

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

When I use the term SA, I am referring to the real deal, as houndlove points out.  Dogs that are unsure, or underexercised, or a little clingy, are not the dogs that customarily need medication to get them by.  But, the ones that have full blown SA can literally destroy your house, struggle until they bleed, or severely damage themselves trying to escape confinement, or panic and get lost.  They are extremely difficult to deal with, and most JQP's don't have the knowledge, time, or redecorating budget...
SA is a term that is thrown around way too much to describe dogs that whine in their crates, or follow their owners to the bathroom.  Real SA dogs are making their gums bleed in an effort to get out of the crate, or chewing through the drywall.  Not the same thing.

Actually I've dealt and deal with dogs who have in your words "real SA". I handle those cases by first finding out about the dogs daily life, and more than 95% if not even higher than that, are dogs who are not having their needs as dogs met. Now if a dog does have a pschological disorder SA is normally not the only behavior issue the dog will have. Owners of dogs with actual mental instabilities have some hard decisions to make because that can't be fixed, it can sometimes be dealt with through the use of  heavy meds, but depending on the severity of the pschological disorder that is sometimes not the best life for the dog.

ORIGINAL: Scout in Canada

I wonder if it is simply a matter of the older dog feeling her packmate's (Marvin's) anxiety and getting herself in a panic, wondering what Marvin is reacting to...

BINGO!

ORIGINAL: Scout in Canada

I wonder if it is simply a matter of the older dog feeling her packmate's (Marvin's) anxiety and getting herself in a panic, wondering what Marvin is reacting to...

I think Marvin is reacting to the memory of his happiest moment.  The WANT.  In getting Marvin use to being alone, I set up different situation for him by changing the members of the pack during outside time.  Marvin is happiest when all members are present including me.  I noticed when I am taken out of the backyard, there was a very slight difference in Marvin, although the other pack members reaction was greater.  As a member was removed from the backyard, Marvin's would become more anxious.  When he was alone, panic would set in.  I also created the same situations indoors using the kitchen and living room with the dining room in between so when confined to the kitchen, Marvin could not see the other pack members but I assume had awareness because of smells, movements, etc.  Marvin got use to being alone in the kitchen much much faster than being alone outside.  These situation were created randomly so Marvin would not detect a routine.

Edit: nevermind

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

When I use the term SA, I am referring to the real deal, as houndlove points out.  Dogs that are unsure, or underexercised, or a little clingy, are not the dogs that customarily need medication to get them by.  But, the ones that have full blown SA can literally destroy your house, struggle until they bleed, or severely damage themselves trying to escape confinement, or panic and get lost.  They are extremely difficult to deal with, and most JQP's don't have the knowledge, time, or redecorating budget...
SA is a term that is thrown around way too much to describe dogs that whine in their crates, or follow their owners to the bathroom.  Real SA dogs are making their gums bleed in an effort to get out of the crate, or chewing through the drywall.  Not the same thing.

Actually I've dealt and deal with dogs who have in your words "real SA". I handle those cases by first finding out about the dogs daily life, and more than 95% if not even higher than that, are dogs who are not having their needs as dogs met. Now if a dog does have a pschological disorder SA is normally not the only behavior issue the dog will have. Owners of dogs with actual mental instabilities have some hard decisions to make because that can't be fixed, it can sometimes be dealt with through the use of  heavy meds, but depending on the severity of the pschological disorder that is sometimes not the best life for the dog.

Having seen some dogs with organic brain dysfunction, I agree that some of them are best euthanized because they cannot attain a good quality of life.  But, others that have been appropriately medicated have gone on to live out their lives in their "forever" homes.  I remember one in particular that no one held out much hope for, but the owner took the advice to go to Tufts and get the dog evaluated.  He is a much more mellow fellow now, and even behaves for the groomer and vet.  I think that it's important to remember that dogs, like humans, are individuals, and should be evaluated that way.