CM and an SA dog

    • Gold Top Dog

    CM and an SA dog

    What brought me to this forum was my foster dog Marvin, a hound with true SA, a panic condition that I had no idea how to cope with.  Marvin was ok in his kennel for a week until one day he exploded (see picture below).  I was new here and I received good advice from 4 posters and I was happy.  I developed a plan of action using the forum#%92s advice, Patricia McConnell#%92s book “Ill be home soon”, websites, and my own email rescue network.  Some things worked and a lot didn#%92t work.  As I got to know Marvin, I got to customize managing his SA with a different approach.  Slowly I was able to get his kennel back to normal with cloth comforts.  Marvin#%92s SA is managed, but somehow I feel my job isn#%92t complete.  I have successfully modified the behavior but I am not sure if I have affected the dog#%92s mind. 
     
    When I see other threads come up on SA, there is very little activity…people stay away.  I want to give advise as to what worked for me but I am relunctant because of this feeling that I have not done all I could. 
     
    It was stated in another thread that CM had a couple of espisodes on SA dogs.  In the thread ‘I don#%92t understand this training vs behaviour thing”, it was stated CM teaches life skills.  This condition clearly falls under life skills.  Can anyone recollect these episodes, describe your take, and what you saw CM do to have the most impact on the SA dog?  Your comments or recollections would be greatly appreciated.

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    Ok.  Thank you espencer.  I  will have to wait until I get home this evening to watch and listen.  If I call it up now then it will be a sure give away that I am not working, but surfing.
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    Okay, I'll give you my basic take on SA based on my own experiences, research, and some of what Cesar says and uses. Unless there is an underlying condition, I see it as having these main components.

    1. The dog's natural born personality. Some dogs are simply a bit more high strung and prone to this disorder, but they are not lost causes.

    2. The owner's personality and interaction with the dog. Intense, emotional, nervous, high-strung ;people who constantly need a connection, affection, and contact with the dog seem to escalate the SA in certain dogs. This includes intense greetings and emotional farwells in their comings and goings with the dog.

    3. The dog has been conditioned to be with someone 24/7 and has never learned to have alone time.

    4. Frustration due to excess energy which has not been lessened by at least an hour long, structured walk (follow Cesar's protocals here) and additional exercise and mental stimulation depending on the dog's age, fitness, and energy levels.

    5. Leadership issues. The dog does not see the owner as the leader and does not understand what is expected of them when their "follower" leaves them behind. 

    What I have found helpful:

    1. Fulfill the dog's basic needs for "exercise, discipline, and affection", in that order.

    2. Incorporate a daily walk (see Cesar's protocols) before the dog is left alone, and another shorter walk in the evening if needed.

    3. Practice Cesar's leadership attitude, body language and deameanor while using his "rules, boundaries, and limitations" formula. Establish leadership within the relationship with your dog.

    4. Get the dog used to some alone time, gradually being for longer periods of time. Ignore the dog for awhile before you leave and for awhile when you return. No emotional comings and goings. Walk out like you will only be gone for 5 minutes, and walk back in as if you've only been gone for 5 minutes.

    5. Sometimes leaving a stuffed kong or setting up a "treasure hunt" for treats before you walk away for the extended periods, is very helpful.

    Dogs are social animals. Sometimes another dog can be helpful, but often it makes no difference. Leaving the dog alone all day is not the best choice, and I'm sure this is not big news. [;)]

    Maybe espencer has some links if you can't find some of Cesar's specific protocols on the net. I know you don't get his show, and his book is on the way, but this are my basics using some of Cesar's "stuff".

    I'm sure others will be able to give more specific advice. [:)]
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    ORIGINAL: espencer

    Aah who better than the one and only CM to explain you that [;)]:

    [linkhttp://blogs5.nationalgeographic.com/channel/blog/dogwhisperer/?p=122]http://blogs5.nationalgeographic.com/channel/blog/dogwhisperer/?p=122[/link]

     
    Yay spence! [;)]
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    ORIGINAL: DPU.

    Ok.  Thank you espencer.  I  will have to wait until I get home this evening to watch and listen.  If I call it up now then it will be a sure give away that I am not working, but surfing.

     
    Is not a video, is a blog, a small one but he explains a little bit about separation anxiety
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    ORIGINAL: Angelique

    Maybe espencer has some links if you can't find some of Cesar's specific protocols on the net. I know you don't get his show, and his book is on the way, but this are my basics using some of Cesar's "stuff".


     
    Yay i read your mind before you posted hehe, your post privides a little more detail of what CM wrote in a couple sentences [;)], that way DPU can see what Cesar was talking about on his blog
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     Angelique

    Great post[:D]

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    For anyone who might want a more complete understanding of separation anxiety, in addition to the material presented, these are some of the other people whose work you may want to check out:
    Patricia McConnell
    Nick Dodman (DVM behaviorist)
    William E. Campbell
    Karen Overall (DVM behaviorist)
    Steven Lindsay
    Of course, there are others, but SA is a frustrating problem sometimes, and it helps to have additional info to find what works best for an individual dog.  I don't always agree with the people listed, but they offer perspectives that have helped a lot of dogs.
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    ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

    For anyone who might want a more complete understanding of separation anxiety, in addition to the material presented, these are some of the other people whose work you may want to check out:
    Patricia McConnell
    Nick Dodman (DVM behaviorist)
    William E. Campbell
    Karen Overall (DVM behaviorist)
    Steven Lindsay
    Of course, there are others, but SA is a frustrating problem sometimes, and it helps to have additional info to find what works best for an individual dog.  I don't always agree with the people listed, but they offer perspectives that have helped a lot of dogs.


     
    I'd beware of Dodman. He is as much as a drug pusher in the dog world as some pediatricians have pushed behavior control drugs on kids for minor social issues, so that they are less "bothersome". [;)]
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    Actually, as much as it is a human parent's obligation to monitor the medical care a child gets, it's ours as petparents to monitor what our dogs get.  But, I have seen Dr. Dodman's knowledge of psychopharmacology save some dogs that were otherwise going to the dead bin.  So, I reserve my judgment on a case by case basis.  And, to assume that dogs never need to be medicated is just as dangerous as overmedicating them.  They have brains, therefore, they can suffer from organic brain dysfunction.  And, frankly, if the "bothersome" involves aggression, and the dog is at risk of losing its home, I have no problem with meds.  In fact, Dodman often recommends the use of meds in the beginning stages of behavior modification, and tapering them later, once the program has had some time to take effect.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

    Actually, as much as it is a human parent's obligation to monitor the medical care a child gets, it's ours as petparents to monitor what our dogs get.  But, I have seen Dr. Dodman's knowledge of psychopharmacology save some dogs that were otherwise going to the dead bin.  So, I reserve my judgment on a case by case basis.  And, to assume that dogs never need to be medicated is just as dangerous as overmedicating them.  They have brains, therefore, they can suffer from organic brain dysfunction.  And, frankly, if the "bothersome" involves aggression, and the dog is at risk of losing its home, I have no problem with meds.  In fact, Dodman often recommends the use of meds in the beginning stages of behavior modification, and tapering them later, once the program has had some time to take effect.


     
    Point taken.
     
    I have learned by going to various doctors, taking my dogs to various vets, and from what my sister has experienced with her kid's pediatrician, that with human or animal "physicians", they are only human and have their own agendas - sometimes involving drug companies and/or experimental drugs. 
     
    You run the entire spectrum from doctors who push meds for everything to those who won't give you medication until you're in extreme distress or pain becuase it's against their personal belief systems. 
     
    There is a middle ground. Be careful who you trust.
     
     
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    Fact; I worked with a vet tec who had her dogs (2 six yr old pointers) on some heavy meds for SA. We did a session and found out her dogs weren't getting their needs met., She started doing what needed to be done, and the dogs are no longer medicated. Until the "professional" working with the dogs has all the facts, the issue cannot be resolved. But the sad truth for most owners is, their dogs don't need to be medicated, they need what they need as dogs. Imagine that.
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    I trust my vet, she only medicates when absolutely necessary.
     
    I have a supply of emergency sedatives, and I have had to use them twice.
     
    Overmedicating dogs is way more common than what we think.......
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    And I would agree with Angelique and Spiritdogs in the sense of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Meds, in controlled circumstances for a certain amount of time can actually be helpful. It is but one tool, not the only tool. What should follow or coincide is some kind of resolution to the problem.