What can you contribute?

jjsmom06,

Please post your questions, we've all blocked those we don't wish to communicate with too but that's not everyone! If your questions are not specifically CM, you can post them anywhere they fit on this board and if you don't know the moderators will move it for you.

And if it is CM specific, post it who cares what others "think" you're baiting and my guess is that if you blocked the right people you won't get the negative responses.

 
 
Very good points Dawn!  Thank you for the encouragement! []
 
 I have frustrations at times over my spooky little girl, but I just haven#%92t really wanted to open myself or others up for attack. I have good and bad days with her and NO training experience so I feel I have a lot I can learn. I am a “former” CM fan myself… I own his DVD#%92s (the people training and his first season) as well as his book and I use some techniques that I have learned from him as well as borrowing from other training philosophies. (NOTE:  I say “former” CM fan NOT meaning that I do not believe in anything he does…but simply that he has been “soured” for me after seeing so much controversy on this and several other dog forums.) IMO both sides are TOO strong and not flexible with their thinking and while I certainly do not agree with every technique he uses I take what I want and toss aside the rest.   
 
Again, thanks you for your kind words and encouragement Dawn!  I may decide to post something in the next week or two if things settle and become more civil in the training arena!!
 

I am in total agreement with you.  I too like Cesar and watch all his shows.  I also purchased a clicker today and can#%92t wait to try some clicker trainer this weekend.  I like other methods too.  I love so many books I have read recently and I just bought the power of positive dog training to read today.  I have read Cesar#%92s book and own his DVD#%92s and love them – but they are far from my bible and there are many things that might work but I would love to try other methods instead.  Well, post when you#%92re ready try posting in the behavior space.
 
Good luck.

I too like Cesar and watch all his shows.

I actually haven't even wanted to watch any for over 7 months now, but I do utilize some of his techniques.. like the calm behavior (as Ed had pointed out earlier in this thread) and I ignore the "excitement" when I first come home and we don't walk out the door till they are both calm. But I don't do things like walk out the door first etc... but still I think there are some good things  to learn there!
 
I also started clicker training with my step kids pit mix and I am SHOCKED at what a difference it makes... the clicker is my new best friend!  [8D]
 
Thanks again for the "atta girl" .. I might JUST do a post in the behavior section next week! I hope you will take a peek and give your input! []

Yep, the great part is sinse the ones who are actually using the block botton, (the same ones that were more guilty of doing what they were acusing others of) the conversations have become just that, conversations.

Shelly - I totally understand where you're coming from. I still like CM, and I still have my clicker handy, but the "extrememists" on both sides make me want to call it quits and just do it on my own.

I did just read an article that really seemed to understand where those of us in the middle stood. [linkhttp://www.clickandtreat.com/Clicker_Training/GG/GG001/gg001.htm]Gary Wilkes[/link] I like how he fully admits that clickers have limitations and that the some proponents of clicker training are a bit "fanatic." He does a good job of describing in simple terms what a clicker can do and what it can't.

Of course, I post that link at the risk of a rash of people posting to say he doesn't know what he's talking about and giving me 10 links of people who absolutely do know everything. (Yup. Been here too long.)

I did just read an article that really seemed to understand where those of us in the middle stood. Gary Wilkes I like how he fully admits that clickers have limitations and that the some proponents of clicker training are a bit "fanatic." He does a good job of describing in simple terms what a clicker can do and what it can't.

I am definitely going to check him out!

ORIGINAL: jenhuedepohl

I did just read an article that really seemed to understand where those of us in the middle stood. [linkhttp://www.clickandtreat.com/Clicker_Training/GG/GG001/gg001.htm]Gary Wilkes[/link] I like how he fully admits that clickers have limitations and that the some proponents of clicker training are a bit "fanatic." He does a good job of describing in simple terms what a clicker can do and what it can't.

He gives an honest, straight forward, and unemotional opinion which sticks to the facts as he has personally found to be true.

One can always quibble a couple of details, but it was a good piece. IMO

Thanks! []

Shelly - I totally understand where you're coming from. I still like CM, and I still have my clicker handy, but the "extrememists" on both sides make me want to call it quits and just do it on my own.

I did just read an article that really seemed to understand where those of us in the middle stood. Gary Wilkes I like how he fully admits that clickers have limitations and that the some proponents of clicker training are a bit "fanatic." He does a good job of describing in simple terms what a clicker can do and what it can't.

 
Jennifer, thanks so much for that link!  I will definitely check it out. I am glad to hear I am not alone in my views... I am not in "anyone's camp".... I beg borrow and steal from all different training philosophies![]

ORIGINAL: jjsmom06

Shelly - I totally understand where you're coming from. I still like CM, and I still have my clicker handy, but the "extrememists" on both sides make me want to call it quits and just do it on my own.

I did just read an article that really seemed to understand where those of us in the middle stood. Gary Wilkes I like how he fully admits that clickers have limitations and that the some proponents of clicker training are a bit "fanatic." He does a good job of describing in simple terms what a clicker can do and what it can't.

Jennifer, thanks so much for that link! I will definitely check it out. I am glad to hear I am not alone in my views... I am not in "anyone's camp".... I beg borrow and steal from all different training philosophies![]

Shelly, I'm beginning to, too.
Even my trainer, who is a TOTAL +R trainer, respects CM in ways. She even borrows from several different trainers (I believe most do).
When walking Ella, to be able to distract her before she sees another dog and redirect would be ideal, TOTALLY. But it is not always possible. I have taken the prong off of her and am using a soft lined martingale, so if I cannot distract and redirect in time, I WILL give a quick collar correction and I will have to let her know that I am in charge and that to stand there and whine, and attempt to get me in the direction of the other dog, is just NOT going to work.
I have to use the occasional collar correction because Ella gets in the "mode" if not distracted in time and then NO amount of treats or ANYTHING is going to catch her attention. But I'm not rough with her. I mean, I'm firm, but I don't pick her up by her neck and drag her forward.

Even my trainer, who is a TOTAL +R trainer, respects CM in ways. She even borrows from several different trainers (I believe most do).

I think MOST trainers and dog owners are this way. It's my personal theory (completely unscientific!) That the people on the extreme ends are the most vocal - that DOES NOT mean they are the majority! I think the MAJORITY of people are like us, who use what works best for them and their dogs. We all want to avoid corrections as much as we can but believe that they are a necessary part of training in certain situations.

ORIGINAL: jenhuedepohl

Shelly - I totally understand where you're coming from. I still like CM, and I still have my clicker handy, but the "extrememists" on both sides make me want to call it quits and just do it on my own.

I did just read an article that really seemed to understand where those of us in the middle stood. [linkhttp://www.clickandtreat.com/Clicker_Training/GG/GG001/gg001.htm]Gary Wilkes[/link] I like how he fully admits that clickers have limitations and that the some proponents of clicker training are a bit "fanatic." He does a good job of describing in simple terms what a clicker can do and what it can't.

Of course, I post that link at the risk of a rash of people posting to say he doesn't know what he's talking about and giving me 10 links of people who absolutely do know everything. (Yup. Been here too long.)

Great link.  I also like the fact that he talks about the limitations of CT as well.

My favorite section was:

7) A word, ("good" "yes" "ready") works just as well as the clicker. -- No. There are still some people who seem to  have an allergy to clickers, even though they know how well they work. Having used both clickers and words, several thousand times, I can assure you that the difference between a clicker and a word is easily observable. The essence of this method is using a precisely timed signal to mark good behavior. Words are far less efficient as "behavior markers" than a crisp, quick sound, like a metallic click. This does not mean that  clicker trainers always use a clicker in every training situation

I thought that section reinforces some of the things that we've already learned on these threads. Nice find Jen!

Shelly, I'm beginning to, too.
Even my trainer, who is a TOTAL +R trainer, respects CM in ways. She even borrows from several different trainers (I believe most do).
When walking Ella, to be able to distract her before she sees another dog and redirect would be ideal, TOTALLY. But it is not always possible. I have taken the prong off of her and am using a soft lined martingale, so if I cannot distract and redirect in time, I WILL give a quick collar correction and I will have to let her know that I am in charge and that to stand there and whine, and attempt to get me in the direction of the other dog, is just NOT going to work.
I have to use the occasional collar correction because Ella gets in the "mode" if not distracted in time and then NO amount of treats or ANYTHING is going to catch her attention. But I'm not rough with her. I mean, I'm firm, but I don't pick her up by her neck and drag her forward.

Rebecca, I have to congratulate you on your dedication to helping sweet Ella. It is so easy to allow yourself to get overwhelmed by things and to fall back on NOT training or working toward correcting behavior problems.
 
Ella is so lucky to have you as her doggie mommy! [8D]
 

I got a clicker last weekend. It cost me a whopping $3.99 + tax (8.25%). Using tips from Pryor's site. I'm starting out with just the click and treat to get him used to that sound meaning something good. So, far he just looks at it like an odd sound, though he will run through a few obedience moves that he already knows. I did it last night and he came to me, so c & t. Then he sat, c & t. Then he downed, c & t. Anything for a treat. To me, the advantage of getting him to recognize what the click means is to work on a stronger recall. The click is a sound that always stays the same, which I think is nice for a cue or marker, as opposed to the human voice, which can have subtle variations from anything, from being upset to having tired feet and an aching back. Even I can tell the difference in DW's voice when she's having a bad day. It's inflection and pitch. Even if I don't accomplish much, it's another way to have fun and spoil him rotten with treats. If it strengthens the obedience, great. If not, I've only spent $4.15.
 
Even though I've already trained the moves with treats, voice commands, and hand signals, his best performance is when I have treats. The click may connect better in his mind for getting treats and then work it's way back around to heeding a voice command more reliably. I'm only expecting perfect recall from a Husky mix. Gots ta have a challenge.
 

Great link. I also like the fact that he talks about the limitations of CT as well.

My favorite section was:

7) A word, ("good" "yes" "ready") works just as well as the clicker. -- No. There are still some people who seem to have an allergy to clickers, even though they know how well they work. Having used both clickers and words, several thousand times, I can assure you that the difference between a clicker and a word is easily observable. The essence of this method is using a precisely timed signal to mark good behavior. Words are far less efficient as "behavior markers" than a crisp, quick sound, like a metallic click. This does not mean that clicker trainers always use a clicker in every training situation

I thought that section reinforces some of the things that we've already learned on these threads. Nice find Jen!

 ED, this is interesting... we use a "snap" of the finger versus a lot of “verbal” communicate when a behavior is unacceptable to us. Since greys are so sensitive to discipline, we found that our previous spook Petey would FREAK when he heard words in the context of human to human communication. They had NOTHING to do with him, yet he thought he was being punished… so this time we decided to go with different sounds or cues to communicate that are less likely to be in normal human conversation.
 
I have often wondered if clicker training would work well with our guys since to the “click” or “snap” sound rather,  communicates our displeasure with their action.   I worry not so much that they would not see the clicker as a positive (since the “treat” will help with that  [] ), but instead that the “snap” of our fingers to communicate “no” would suddenly NOT work.     
 
Does anyone have any thoughts on this??
 
I hope I made sense with this post…[8|]
 

They had NOTHING to do with him, yet he thought he was being punished…

 
Shadow will do that, too. If I raise my voice or express anger at someone or something, Shadow will act as if I were talking sternly to him. It is another thing to help me keep my words and temper in check when faced with frustrations.