Dog Community

Posted : 2/2/2007 7:34:24 PM

I have to use the occasional collar correction because Ella gets in the "mode" if not distracted in time and then NO amount of treats or ANYTHING is going to catch her attention. But I'm not rough with her. I mean, I'm firm, but I don't pick her up by her neck and drag her forward.

Yup. I totally with you there! I'm busy and have a family and we LOVE to go camping. Of course we take our dogs! If I spent months gradually desensitizing her to all those squirrels, kids and other new things that get her barking we'd miss out on our favorite activities. So I use my clicker whenever I can to train incompatible behaviors but things like Cesar's body blocking and "calm assertiveness" also come in REALLY handy!

chewbecca

Posted : 2/2/2007 7:34:59 PM

ORIGINAL: jjsmom06

Shelly, I'm beginning to, too.
Even my trainer, who is a TOTAL +R trainer, respects CM in ways. She even borrows from several different trainers (I believe most do).
When walking Ella, to be able to distract her before she sees another dog and redirect would be ideal, TOTALLY. But it is not always possible. I have taken the prong off of her and am using a soft lined martingale, so if I cannot distract and redirect in time, I WILL give a quick collar correction and I will have to let her know that I am in charge and that to stand there and whine, and attempt to get me in the direction of the other dog, is just NOT going to work.
I have to use the occasional collar correction because Ella gets in the "mode" if not distracted in time and then NO amount of treats or ANYTHING is going to catch her attention. But I'm not rough with her. I mean, I'm firm, but I don't pick her up by her neck and drag her forward.

Rebecca, I have to congratulate you on your dedication to helping sweet Ella. It is so easy to allow yourself to get overwhelmed by things and to fall back on NOT training or working toward correcting behavior problems.

Ella is so lucky to have you as her doggie mommy! [8D]

Thank you, Shelly!

Though, she is not 100% lucky. She COULD have an owner that didn't freeze whenever a dog barked in the distance somewhere while we're on a walk.

jjsmom06

Posted : 2/2/2007 7:36:08 PM

Though, she is not 100% lucky. She COULD have an owner that didn't freeze whenever a dog barked in the distance somewhere while we're on a walk.

Well that wouldn't be humna nature now would it![

]

jjsmom06

Posted : 2/2/2007 7:38:56 PM

Yup. I totally with you there! I'm busy and have a family and we LOVE to go camping. Of course we take our dogs! If I spent months gradually desensitizing her to all those squirrels, kids and other new things that get her barking we'd miss out on our favorite activities. So I use my clicker whenever I can to train incompatible behaviors but things like Cesar's body blocking and "calm assertiveness" also come in REALLY handy!

Jennifer,
We go camping in the RV at least once a month and this is one of our biggest problem areas for Pru. Since she is TERRIFIED of children and there always tons of loud ones when we go[

]... how do you deal with this? Can you explain your techniques to me a bit??[

]

chewbecca

Posted : 2/2/2007 7:41:10 PM

ORIGINAL: jjsmom06

Though, she is not 100% lucky. She COULD have an owner that didn't freeze whenever a dog barked in the distance somewhere while we're on a walk.

Well that wouldn't be humna nature now would it![]

Well the snow and ice on the ground doesn't do much to calm my nerves when walking her.

I end up having to walk her SEVERAL times up and down in front of my house. My dog deserves better, but we're working on it.
If I could get her on a treadmill, I'd not worry so much about it. But she isn't having ANYTHING to do with grasping walking on the thing.

I could muzzle her, I suppose, but I don't want to do that.

And this weather has been BRUTAL this winter as far as temperature goes and snow. I need to get some boots for her.

jenhuedepohl

Posted : 2/2/2007 7:41:35 PM

I have often wondered if clicker training would work well with our guys since to the “click” or “snap” sound rather, communicates our displeasure with their action. I worry not so much that they would not see the clicker as a positive (since the “treat” will help with that ), but instead that the “snap” of our fingers to communicate “no” would suddenly NOT work.

I used the "snap" when I pointed and said "out" then body blocked Lucy when I was working on her to stop going nuts when people walked by. Now all I have to do is stand up and point and "snap" and she stops what shes doing and comes to me. It hasn't seemed to affect her attitude toward the clicker at all. I think dogs ar really good at telling the difference between sounds. Of course - as I say that I remember how Lucy is goes nuts and runs to our door anytime a doorbell rings on TV!

Here's a quote from that article that I linked that is relevant:

5) You can't teach classes with clickers because all those clickers will confuse the dogs. -- Having taught clicker classes for years, this one still makes me smile a little. Dogs have better hearing that we do, and they quickly learn to listen for their owner's click, while ignoring all others. One side effect of this forced discrimination is that within a couple sessions, clicker trained dogs tend to be very focused on their trainers -- because they have to be.

jenhuedepohl

Posted : 2/2/2007 7:49:19 PM

We go camping in the RV at least once a month and this is one of our biggest problem areas for Pru. Since she is TERRIFIED of children and there always tons of loud ones when we go... how do you deal with this? Can you explain your techniques to me a bit??

Well, unfortunately we have the OPPOSITE problem! If kids go running by or ride by our camper on their bikes she goes nuts because she wants to PLAY! She adores kids and lets mine do the most awful stuff to her. Our old grouchy Dal had them trained to be gentle around dogs or they'd get snapped at, but Lucy has undone all his work [

]

My stepmom got a rescue Golden that was extremely shy and jumpy around kids. But we gradually got him used to my boys and the other grandkids by letting the kids feed him goodies and throw his ball for him. We made the kids totally ignore him at first, and gradually he started coming to them for attention. It didn't hurt that my Dad's Visla was getting a LOT of attention from the kids and Ben decided maybe he wanted some of that! Ben never had any fear aggression, though. So it wasn't too hard to help him.

snownose

Posted : 2/2/2007 7:56:02 PM

At the risk of sounding like a repetitive nut, I don't use a clicker , never have and never will.
Not that I am against it, I just found different ways of working and training my dogs.
I snap my fingers, when outside and when they are romping they sometimes don't hear that, so I call them and clap my hands.......here they roll in.

I think in general most people take a little something from Cesar that helps them. I take a little from everybody as long as it works in my training environment.

The bigger challenge at this point is a Husky/Chow mix, talk about stubborn.......not much motivates this dog, it's just going to take patience and more work than it usually does.

jenhuedepohl

Posted : 2/2/2007 8:09:27 PM

At the risk of sounding like a repetitive nut, I don't use a clicker , never have and never will. Not that I am against it, I just found different ways of working and training my dogs.

I can totally relate to that. I probably wouldn't have stuck with the clicker for just myself. I was going good training Lucy with voice/hand commands. But I got one to mess around with and the kids wanted to try it out. That was a BLAST! Lucy could "get it" so much easier because she could ALWAYS understand the click - even if she couldn't always understand a couple spastic, giggling little boys. The boys picked it up amazingly well, too. They actually have better timing than my husband!

lisa baker

Posted : 2/2/2007 9:03:28 PM

ORIGINAL: ron2

Even though I've already trained the moves with treats, voice commands, and hand signals, his best performance is when I have treats. The click may connect better in his mind for getting treats and then work it's way back around to heeding a voice command more reliably. I'm only expecting perfect recall from a Husky mix. Gots ta have a challenge.

Unless I misunderstood, actually I challenged the instructor that the clickers be returned after the 8 week course I am currently attending. The clicker and treats disappears! Once the dog is trained to your liking, then live your life with the dog and have fun and share life experiences together.

BTW, Marvin is sooo distracted in the class by so many other things going on, I cheat and use hand signals. The hand signals apear to be stronger than the clicker.

luvmyswissy

Posted : 2/2/2007 10:08:08 PM

Great article and I have read his stuff before and I am in total agreement with his views. I have always believed that neither one method is the answer to all. Some of my most heated discussions on these boards are my feeling as to how to correct misbehavior. I have tried unsuccessfully, but I have succeeded using mild leash corrections. I use both in my training.

My dog is very well trained and especially with his obedience but there is always thing that could use improvement. I bought a clicker today and can't wait to work on targeting and clipping his nails and many other exercises that look like fun.

jjsmom06

Posted : 2/2/2007 11:23:59 PM

I used the "snap" when I pointed and said "out" then body blocked Lucy when I was working on her to stop going nuts when people walked by. Now all I have to do is stand up and point and "snap" and she stops what shes doing and comes to me. It hasn't seemed to affect her attitude toward the clicker at all. I think dogs ar really good at telling the difference between sounds. Of course - as I say that I remember how Lucy is goes nuts and runs to our door anytime a doorbell rings on TV!

Here's a quote from that article that I linked that is relevant:

quote:

5) You can't teach classes with clickers because all those clickers will confuse the dogs. -- Having taught clicker classes for years, this one still makes me smile a little. Dogs have better hearing that we do, and they quickly learn to listen for their owner's click, while ignoring all others. One side effect of this forced discrimination is that within a couple sessions, clicker trained dogs tend to be very focused on their trainers -- because they have to be.

Jennifer...
THANKS so much for this info! I had worried about it so maybe now I can try it!

My stepmom got a rescue Golden that was extremely shy and jumpy around kids. But we gradually got him used to my boys and the other grandkids by letting the kids feed him goodies and throw his ball for him. We made the kids totally ignore him at first, and gradually he started coming to them for attention. It didn't hurt that my Dad's Visla was getting a LOT of attention from the kids and Ben decided maybe he wanted some of that! Ben never had any fear aggression, though. So it wasn't too hard to help him.

We have TRIED to get kids even within 20 feet of her and she goes crazy.. we have only had her a few months so we are working up to it! [

]

ron2

Posted : 2/3/2007 8:07:11 AM

The clicker and treats disappears! Once the dog is trained to your liking, then live your life with the dog and have fun and share life experiences together

Yes but some people speak of clicker training as the be all, end all with a devoutness usually reserved for the cultish followers of CM and there's got to be some goodness in using it.

I don't think of the click as something in the dog's language. A click would something in a dolphin's language, though. But it would be an identifiable sound to link behavior to reward.

I may not accomplish much with it, since I already have obedience moves trained and he will do them for a treat. He will do them much of the time without a treat in my hand. Or it might just help.

jenhuedepohl

Posted : 2/3/2007 8:46:17 AM

We have TRIED to get kids even within 20 feet of her and she goes crazy.. we have only had her a few months so we are working up to it!

Yeah. At first Ben didn't like having them ANYWHERE near him. We had the boys TOTALLY ignore him. If they were too close, like when we were inside their camper, he would hide in his kennel. My stepmom would have the kids play with and give treats to their Visla, who is Ben's own personal Goddess, and he figured out pretty quick that he wanted some of that action. It helped that he is MUCH braver around the Visla. When Hayley isn't around, he's much more shy and nervous.

jenhuedepohl

Posted : 2/3/2007 8:51:16 AM

I don't think of the click as something in the dog's language. A click would something in a dolphin's language, though. But it would be an identifiable sound to link behavior to reward.

I think Lucy would do fine without the clicker, but it does seem to speed up learning new tricks. I think just because I have much better timing with that little click. Plus, in a house with two jabbering boys and a mom who is always try to keep the chaos meter low, Lucy hears a LOT of talking that is just another background noise to tune out. I really need to work on voice commands because she has me totally spoiled with hand signals. And those don't work if she's outside off-leash.

What can you contribute?