Before Cesar Milian..... ??

I didn't think this thread would go anywhere, interesting?
 
I will answer though; I should have when I posted it.
 
I had none, no interest or ideas.  I read a few books, as a requirement of my job but had no real interest in them.  I also had a naturally well behavior and mature dog at this point so no real problems.  When I got my first Swissy and began having problems did I first start researching my dogs issues and have any interest in seeking a professional which lead me down the training world, sparked my interest to understand dogs, training and there psychology, join dog forums etc.  Cesar hit the world seen by storm at the same time and to have someone demonstrate in front of me that success could be achieved was a great empowerment to see that method can work, all methods..
 
Over the years I have entrenched myself with knowledge from forums, books, training classes, behaviorist (2 of them), watching Cesar and have formed an opinion of my own.  I believe that all methods have there place, I find some barbaric, I find some useless and found my middle ground and what has or is working.  But I continue to listen and learn and try new things.
 

I became very interested in training about a year and a half ago, when I got my dog. It wasn't for several months that I became aware of CM.

ORIGINAL: luvmyswissy

What level of interest did you have in dog training "before" CM?  Did you follow a dog training method or a trainer?  And if you did, what was the method or trainers you followed?  
 
Remember,  BEFORE Cesar.

 

At age nine I learned if I said a word when my dog did a behavior "naturally" (as mentioned in the teaching a dog to bow thread) and then praised her, she quickly learned to do the behavior on command. I saw an old show on TV where they were using treats to trick-train performing animals, so I incorporated that with great results. At age 12 my neighbor was working with a balanced/traditional trainer and shared everything he was learning with me and let me help train is lab pup. A lot came from working with and training horses, too.

I studied with an old school Koehler Trainer about 30 years ago, and did not embrace "training" as he defined it. Too extreme, almost completely punishment based. Read a few books from a variety of authors and just started interacting more naturally with my dogs, which my former instructor poo-pooed and would not listen to. Also went and discussed some things I was noticing with new local trainer who referred to herself as "Positive Only". But what she was showing me reminded me of the trick-training I started with.  Something was missing. (I've since learned it was the "social" and "behavioral" aspects which training alone could not address) She also wanted nothing to do with what I had to say...and then she went to "war" over methods with my former instructor at the owner level. Very ugly...and very enlightening as far as human agendas and behaviors went.
 
So, I guess I just went my weird non-training way, although I studied operant conditioning and learning theory and used what I found useful when it came to the training portion of working with a dog.

The Monks of New Skete, Bruce Fogal, Stanley Coran, Myrna M. Milani, Michael Fox, Suzanne Clothier and a few others all have had their impacts as well as the observing, interacting, and working with the dogs themselves. Messed up shelter dogs who I have not raised from puppies were my best teachers.

Cesar was a complete surprise! Oh cool! Someone else is thinking along the same lines as myself and a few others from what I'd read. 

Maybe I'll get on the net and see if I can find others who see what I'm seeing and want to have a productive discussion and share their personal experiences...

I followed no actualy trainer, except the ones that we took basic level obedience classes with.  Most of them were into the Dominance theory, which was a novel approach to me.  From learning through these trainers, I was able to "dominate" my 135lb akita with just a glance, or a growl.  While I never "alpha rolled" him, I didn't need to, but I wouldn't ever let him get grouchy with me either...then we'd do the stare-down and he'd crawl over and roll himself underneath me.
 
What I learned through all of this was that the dog is probably going to love it's family pack, but the dog needs to respect the senior members of that pack.  In retrospect, I did this with, what I consider, alot of intimidation and threat (growling, stare-downs, leaning forward or over him) and the way I accomplish it now is through control of resources and appropriate rewards.
 
Just as an aside, our "pack" was Shiloh the Akita and Sammy and Sophie the pekes.  And they got along pretty well.  The smallest of the pack was also the alpha bitch. 

I had Cero

In Mexico people do not teach anything to their dogs but in some weird way they are more balanced that in USA so there is not too much media reaching (TV, books, etc) of what you could be doing with your dog

Like Cesar says, he didnt know dogs could have problems untill he got to USA

ORIGINAL: espencer

I had Cero

In Mexico people do not teach anything to their dogs but in some weird way they are more balanced that in USA so there is not too much media reaching (TV, books, etc) of what you could be doing with your dog

Like Cesar says, he didnt know dogs could have problems untill he got to USA

 
I rushed to see this response!  Did you mean zero?

ORIGINAL: DPU

ORIGINAL: espencer

I had Cero

In Mexico people do not teach anything to their dogs but in some weird way they are more balanced that in USA so there is not too much media reaching (TV, books, etc) of what you could be doing with your dog

Like Cesar says, he didnt know dogs could have problems untill he got to USA

I rushed to see this response!  Did you mean zero?

Hahaha i am sorry, yes is Zero, Cero is in spanish []

ORIGINAL: espencer

I rushed to see this response!  Did you mean zero?


Hahaha i am sorry, yes is Zero, Cero is in spanish []

Boy am I slow.  It just dawned on me that he is from Mexico and so are you.  Your enthusiam may be derived from the shared national identity.  That kind of put a bias on your part for his method.  Is that fair to other members?

ORIGINAL: DPU

Is that fair to other members?

I dont know, is it?

A lot of trainers have influenced me,  Just some of them include:
Leslie Nelson
Pat Miller
Patty Ruzzo (RIP)
Ted Turner
Ian Dunbar
Brian Kilcommons
Barbara Woodhouse
Terri Arnold
Karen Pryor
Emma Parsons (even before the book)
Sue Sternberg
Pia Sylvani
Karen Fischer (not famous, should be)
Donna Duford
Suzanne Clothier
Terry and Bill Ryan
Kathy Sdao
Brenda Aloff
The list is certainly incomplete, or I'd be typing for a long time.  Note that all of them are not what people now consider positive only.  But, they all influenced me, either with their leash handling, timing, use of voice, interpretation of learning theory, etc.

The first "famous" person to influence my training was Winnifred Strickland.  From there I have branched out to lots of folks.  Part of my training interest has shifted to include other dog sport so Bob Vest has become a very influential person in my training life (along with Cappy Pruett and Larry Painter who follow Bob's practices).  My obedience training includes Leslie Nelson, Patty Russo, Ted Turner, Sandra Ladwig (after CM chronologically for me but in the Patty Russo theme).  Bernie Brown was back there too, as well as Kilcommons, Woodhouse, and the Monks,,, As well as Job Michael ? who had been a monk then left the order. OOps forgot Carol Lea Benjamin and Liz P.
 
I forgot Marty Robbins, he had a major impact too.

Who is Cesar Milan? Really? Just some guy on tv making a buck, doing a lot of things a lot of people have been doing for a while now. Well minus a few that im not going to get into a debate about that has been covered more than enough here....
Growing up, I remember my father exercising my dog with me, he never hit or was "dominant" with our dogs, but they knew who the bosses were, the humans. (we had the food) And I remember he cried more over losing our dog when she died than his father. But back then there wasn't all of the reality shows and what not on tv like there is now. People looking for a quick fix.
And yes back then people had dogs that were problems, and a lot got dumped in the shelters. But I do remember a lot of people coming into the humane society where my mother worked and I was voluntold to hose out the cages, Asking how they can stop their dog from chewing, or playing or jumping.
Everyone there knew the proper answer, give it some training, make a dog work for what it wants, don't hit...that sort of thing.
Myself and my entire family have always trained our dogs fairly well. Except my aunt who had this BC that was facinated with the reflections off of a watch glass. It was in the back of her husbands 57 or 58 chevy and saw the light spot on the inside of the roof....she jumped and bit the "spot" and tore a nice long tear in the fabric....
Anyway just my two pennies.

I haven't had any interest in training. My dad trained dogs for the military - border patrol, etc. We only had German Shepherds living with us. He never talked about "traditional training" vs. anything. It was just "training" - there was no other way. He was a traditional trainer, if I had to label him right now. Our dogs would never take a slice of juicy steak without a command, and he always had a blast wresting with them - he just loved it! He had this voice - it was full of "dominant energy" Just him saying "Stop it" gave me the shivers, still does... I bet his dogs picked up in that.

I haven't spoken with him in a year - I told him I was getting a Spaniel, he said "They are all stupid"... We never got along... Anyway, my "training experience" boiled down to me dragging our dogs around the house and building castles around them -out of couch cushions They were my fury friends. I wouldn't say human fury friends - just friends. Our language consisted of me literally garbing a dog with my little fingers (tail, neck - whatever is closer) and puling it in the direction I wanted it to go. If Judy (our first dog) was in the mood of being bugged - she'd follow me, if not, she'd turn around and go to her spot - that was a universal sign for "leave me alone".

I stared reading books about dog training because my pup was (and still is) a bit of a bully - alpha wanna-be, for sure. The interest came with the need to figure out how come I can't control my dog...

ORIGINAL: TinaK
 He had this voice - it was full of "dominant energy" Just him saying "Stop it" gave me the shivers, still does... I bet his dogs picked up in that.
I haven't spoken with him in a year - I told him I was getting a Spaniel, he said "They are all stupid"... We never got along...
I stared reading books about dog training because my pup was (and still is) a bit of a bully - alpha wanna-be, for sure. The interest came with the need to figure out how come I can't control my dog...

Grab a copy of Peggy Tillman's "Clicking With Your Dog".  If some of us here can clicker train hounds, a spaniel can learn, too. []  Training is supposed to be fun, and I think you are well on your way to finding that out.  Why would anyone need to have "that voice"?  Dogs can hear much better than we can, after all...