Before Cesar Milian..... ??

I started out with the Monks of New Skete (pre-revised editions). I was primarily going by them (a lot of the times via someone I know who is much older than myself and has trained her own working farm dogs) for the first 4 years I had dogs. Then I was a big fan of Cesar's. Then I discovered Karen Pryor, Jean Donaldson, Pat Miller and Suzanne Clothier. 

I do credit Cesar for making me think more about dog training. I just kind of muddled along for a long time, taking random advice and reading library copies of How to be Your Dog's Best Friend. Watching the Dog Whisperer got me thinking about the gaps in my own dog's training and made me decide to do some more reading. The other influence was volunteering at a shelter and working with a number of very different kinds and personalities of dogs there.

The voice is natural - he doesn't know it any other way. He talks the same way with me, and with my little brother and sister when they misbehave (the are 22 years younger than me!). He only has to call our names when we misbehave - that's all... It's this still, serious deep voice. And he is not a bug guy as some might think.

My dog showed signs of dominance aggression when he was 6-10 m.o. It was bad - biting when I tried to move him from my side of bed, biting when he'd figure we are NOT going to the park, etc. Spaniels are not stupid (he seems to think so) - they are very smart. Mine just needs tight rules!!! The bed is mine now! [][]

I think this is a great thread! It gives us all a chance to share our backgrounds, and it does render unto Cesar what is Cesar's (if you'll pardon the NT punning). He made dog training more popular, and that is undisputably a good thing.

Oh, to answer the question, I loved watching Barbara Woodhouse on PBS when I was a kid--that was my introduction to training. I trained my first dog as an adult with the Monks and Koehler, and was introduced to clicker training with my second dog, so I guess I've been invested in dog training for (yikes!) fifteen years, much more so in the past two years or so.

Interesting assumption. One that I did not make.
 
Of course, this is isn't the first time you've called spencer specifically to task on something. Also interesting.

Carol Lea Benjamin

 
I've read her and been admonished for it.
 
Growing up, I wasn't aware of any specific dog training books. Looking back now, the difference was in the owners, as well as the hardness or softness of the dog. The scariest looking dog, when I was 4 or 5 was a GSD but she was as sweet as Tupelo Honey (thanks Van Morrison.) But a Dobie chased me for a city block. I was wearing roman-style sandals. One slipped off and I never stopped running. The GSD was a sweet dog handled well by her owner. The dobie was owned by idiots. It wasn't until I got Shadow that I started studying training in depth. He doesn't act like a Lhasa Apso that my in-laws have. He acts like a Siberian Husky. So, I went to sites that dealt with that breed. Their training tips were a mix of Leerburg, Adamson, and treat-training. As for scruffing, I didn't wait for him to bite some one. I scruffed when he didn't listen to the word no. That is, I established dominance before he could get into full-scale uncontrollable aggression. It was scruff, eye-lock, and "no". Sibes commuicate with the eyes. He who blinks first, loses. Shadow is so much into the eyes that if he's running around the yard barking with the neighbor dogs, I can hide my face and he can't "see" me. The rest of my body may be in view but he will run around until he can see my eyes again and then take off again. It was probably halfway into CM's first season that I watched a show. Some things made sense, other things didn't fit with our lifestyle or equipment. Example, I use a standard walking harness, so collar pops are out. Primarily because I don't want to damage his throat. He has this magnificent, huge bark and growl and those can be necessary tools at some times. But that doesn't stop me from expecting obedience or controlling the space by drawing the leashing by wrapping it around my hand. In fact, I think my obedience is stronger because I don't rely on leash pops, per se, but on obedience to my voice. And if that's lacking, that is what I work on.
 
Because of his metabolism, based on his dominant breed, the order of CM's regimen does not work for us. We exercise or play, then he eats, as the physical activity keys up his appetite. He gets affection throughout the day. And training in a random manner. The randomness is important because we may not know exactly when I will need obedience, so always be ready for it.
 
Also, I don't expect that he is going to get along with every dog but I do expect that he is going to behave when I ask for it. And he can expect me, (if that's possible) to control situations so that he doesn't have to be around a dog he doesn't like. That doesn't mean that he is controlling my social circle. That means I'm aware of the environment and control it, putting me in the leader position.
 
Certainly coming to this forum as allowed me greater exposure to a variety of training methods and viewpoints, all of which I incorporate as it seems to fit.
 
In addition to having used correction (non-painful. In fact, Shadow will cower if I do nothing but raise my voice), and ownership of the space, I also see value in being a "treatbag." If training was a set time every day, then he could develope training just for that time of day. But if treats can happen any time of the day, I think that engenders a better overall response, except for the few times he's keyed up to where a treat doesn't mean anything.
 
I'm also fortunate to have a "good" dog who just gets excited sometimes and has the potential to be an alpha dog at times, a subordinate at other times.

ORIGINAL: ron2

Interesting assumption. One that I did not make.

Of course, this is isn't the first time you've called spencer specifically to task on something. Also interesting.

Did but do?  You don't like it when self awareness or self identity is encouraged or self promotion is discouraged?

I'm reminded of Jack at the last herding clinic. Someone asked him who was his greatest influence in developing his training methods.

Without hesitation, he held up his fingers - one finger up, "First, the dogs taught me and teach me 99% of everything. They are most important."

Second finger raised, "My dad. He didn't even train dogs, but the way he handled us. He never laid a hand on us in anger and never raised his voice, but we'd rather die than disappoint him. That's the way I want it to be with the dogs."

Third finger raised, "My old mentor Jock Richardson, never went to school but knew more about dogs than most people do about themselves. And he said, 'Jack, there's never a good reason tae beat a dog.'"

But the order was without hesitation and was very interesting. And only one was a formal/professional dog trainer.

Well, if I listed the non-trainers in my own life, I'd have to go with my mother and my maternal grandmother.  They were using cookies to train their dogs before Ian Dunbar made it popular.  []  And, my grandma used to keep her dogs inside the house when it wasn't fashionable for a farm dog to live anywhere but the barn. []

ORIGINAL: brookcove

Third finger raised, "My old mentor Jock Richardson, never went to school but knew more about dogs than most people do about themselves. And he said, 'Jack, there's never a good reason tae beat a dog.'"

Knew about dogs, but "never went to school" that's impossible, I mean, know one is capable of teaching themselves something. That's just silly. [] 

Last time I checked, there are no "Official" dog training universities, where one can get a diploma like from a regular college. Just the online diploma mills, but correct me if I am wrong........experience with any animal can't be taught.[]

I started getting interested about..... 12 years ago or so, when I got my first dog. I lived in Mexico at the time, we went to an obedience class that the vet recommended. The trainer did it as a hobby (he was an accountant or something), he had two huskies and a min. schnauzer, all titled, all impressive dogs. The class was saturday mornings, and my dog actually looked forward to it, even though by today's standards it would be considered yank and crank. The use of food was non-existent and we used choke chains, although we rarely used them in the correction sense of the word. This guy strongly emphasized on socialization, the first 10-15 minutes of every class were spent with the dogs heeling next to their owners, weaving back and forth the other dog/owners one at the time, doing figure 8s with two dog/owners instead of posts etc. That "socialization ritual" is what I miss the most, so far I've never seen any other class that does that (aside from a puppy class), is there a particular reason for that?

I started reading about the subject again about two years ago when I started thinking about getting another dog, I read the other "dog whisperer" Terry WhatsHisName, the monks, The Other End of the Leash, some Fila specific books. Then Shelia Booth, G. Dildei, Ed Frawley, Karen Pryor, and Suzanne Clothier, and a couple of forums such as this one once I got the dog, somewhere in between I became aware of CM. The funny thing is that I became aware of CM thru an article that was written about his show in a video production magazine I read for work.

The first trainer we used with our first Mastiff I really liked.  He was knowledgable with large/giant breeds and taught us a lot about Mastiffs.  He would bring his Rottie to our home and the 2 of them would train and then play.  His Rottie was awesome and trained beautifully.  That's what I wanted for our dog.  We took private at home lessons with him and then we attended his group class also.  Both were great and I find myself always using his methods since they work well for us.
 
I'd classify him as a middle of the road trainer.  Meaning, we learned all basic commands with +R, but he was also big on NILIF (which I didn't realize had a name back then).  He believed in being fair, yet firm with dogs, altering the intensity based on the breed and dog's nature.  He wasn't cruel or corrective, but he had a way about him that I just liked. 
 
I couldn't find him again when we got Kato (must have moved away) and I took Kato to a Petsmart class basically for the socialness of it.  The other dog owners were petrified of him and they all had little terrier type breeds.  I hated it!  The trainer put Kato in his own class and it was basically worthless.  She was yank and crank IMO.  I don't think she ever trained a Mastiff before and was a bit flustered.  Wouldn't recommend that particular trainer to anyone.  

ORIGINAL: DPU

ORIGINAL: espencer

I rushed to see this response!  Did you mean zero?


Hahaha i am sorry, yes is Zero, Cero is in spanish []

Boy am I slow.  It just dawned on me that he is from Mexico and so are you.  Your enthusiam may be derived from the shared national identity.  That kind of put a bias on your part for his method.  Is that fair to other members?

Actually, I think he meant Zorro. Now stand back! For not only are Mexicanos natural born dog behavior experts and landscapers...they are very handy with a sword!

Whit-whit-whit! Now! As a reminder of your naughty comments towards naturally talented, brown-skinned Americans who commune with dogs and plant tiny trees in perfect arrangements (with one slightly higher for a two-level effect with a little path running down the middle...a path, a path!) you will leave the arena with a large "Z" sliced through your whitebread T-shirt! []