Awsomedog
Posted : 2/2/2007 5:27:13 PM
Doh! I only have a minute but i really like what we got going here (a real discussion) so lets see if I can beat the clock. LOL
ORIGINAL: DPU.
Awsomedog: Have you considered teaching her it's not ok to kill *anything*.
DPU: Not sure if I can because at the time of occurrence I am not there or was not paying attention. Not sure if I really want to. I do want her to get the mice and the opossum. Plus it is funny when she puts a frog in the mouth and the frog let loose its protective juice.
But see that is my point when we're talking aggression. What is natural, and what by our actions or lack of allow aggression to grow out of control? If I want a non aggressive dog I must *show* the dog there's never a reason to be aggressive accept for defending ones self. which means I *have to be there* to stop it, and, want to stop it. That's my decision, if yours is to allow the behavior that's your right. But we can't then complain about the behavior. I'll deal with the critters if I know it helps my dog to live a non aggressive life. And ok, while the frog thing is funny, lots of things dogs do are cute are funny, but that doesn't mean we have to allow it.
Awsomedog: See with aggression prey is prey, and by being allowed to kill small animals simply spills over to other animals like small dogs. Does that make sense?
DPU: Lady, my foster field pointer was like this, killed her bird prey but aggression did not spill over to other small animals or to her pack. Nessie, my Old English Bulldog killed small animals but was not aggressive to pack.
And I believe you, not every dog that kills small animals will become aggressive towards dogs or humans. It's the ones *that do* become aggressive we know shouldn't be allowed to let that aggression grow. Does that make sinse?
Awsomedog: See, your aware of your dogs behavior, so you just have to change it. 1. She shouldn't be allowed to meet other dogs while exicted. 2. I never allow unbalanced dogs meet face to face. Instead we meet by going for a walk together until the excitemnt is gone.
DPU: When members are separated from pack and then reunited a meeting ritual takes place and each member behaves differently. Drizzle's ritual is to bite the head of the separated member sort of to remind them not to fool around with her. Separated members are all calm and in sit/stay position. After their release, ritual begins and some get excited. I do attempt to contol behavior but sometimes the moment gets away from me.
And that is why when it comes to a dog that I know (by what he/she has shown me) has aggression issues, I will change the ritual. I let all know everything is ok and
no one needs to *remind another member*, they're not to be messed with. Aggression simple isn't allowed. A correction from one member to the next is normal , but a correction is not a attack of another member.
Awsomedog: While this may be the case with your dog(case is hurt dog cries and this stops aggressor), it's not the case with all dogs. And allowing aggression in the first place only teaches the dog the behavior is ok.
DPU: Remember this is play and during play the situation may change to be aggressive. When play moves to aggression, I intercede. In the case where the high pitched sound of the hurt dog is enough to change situation (stop play, no fights), I do nothing.
I've found if you learn your dogs you can always tell just the moment before play can go wrong. That's when I step in.
Awsomedog: The aggressor is picking fights, standing her ground, showing her dominance, and doing so right in front of you. I'm glad they come to you when you call, however a well balanced dog not only doesn't feel the need to be aggressive, but certainly would display such behavior infront of who they *know* is the real leader. And that would be you.
DPU: No, Play has turned from fun to serious.
And that's why we need to know the right moment to say, that's enough. It not only stops the fight, but then there's also no ill will being biult up between the dogs.
Awsomedog: These are not different types of aggression, they are different reactions to aggression. The bottom line here is, the leader (you) should never allow any aggression in their pack. This only confuses all the dogs and creates unbalance in the pack. the aggressor doesn't believe the human is the true leader and therefore blieves it's ok to act that way. the others lose faith and trust in the human because they don't understand why the aggression is being allowed to happen. And by being allowed, I simply mean it hasn't been stopped. a dog who shows they get play by the rules, and get along with the pack shouldn't ever be around the pack unless he/she is calm, and! being supervised. That will only change once the dog has proven his or herself. Do you see where I'm coming from?
DPU: It looks to me that there are different types of aggression where the aggressor will stop and leave it (1st scenario), or the aggressor will stand its ground and not escalate (2nd type), and last where the aggressor goes full speed in attack mode. I agree it will be great to stop all aggression. But, it is impossible not to allow aggression in the pack. Isn't a dog snapping at a fly aggression? And situations turn at a moment, faster than my reaction.
Yes there are levels of a aggression, I think I was commenting on the responce of the attackee not the attacker. Dogs will be dogs, and some level of aggression exist in most all of them. Unstable aggression is when a dog attacks a dog it doesn't know that's doing nothing to it, or attacks one of it's own pack members, And here is where I know first hand, *that* aggression can be stopped and can even go completely away.
This is good stuff DPU.
Ok gotta run
Peace!