pit bull, dog aggression, and obsession with ball???

ORIGINAL: espencer

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

This thread got me thinking, in particular about the history of the breed and the impact that has on the temperament of the specimens around today.  In my search to find more info on this, here are some examples of what I found.  I have yet to find anything to refute the information re dog aggression that these sites offers, but my search continues......  Anyway, some people who are interested in the breed may find these links interesting.

[linkhttp://www.pitbullforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2782]http://www.pitbullforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2782[/link]

Wow i was in that forum for 5 minutes and my head hurts, they need a "CM area", it was like going to the past to the old i-dog forum [] 

I thought the link I posted went straight to the "info about the breed" bit.  Sorry.  I did browse through the forum and did not get a headache.  Seems pretty peaceful over there.... especially in comparison to here at times! 

ORIGINAL: Chuffy
  Sorry.  I did browse through the forum and did not get a headache.  Seems pretty peaceful over there.... especially in comparison to here at times! 

A lack of challenge, can seem that way.

ORIGINAL: Xerxes

Oh and is not genetic, ask Jamie the moderator and she will tell you

I believe it was Jaime the moderator, who posted about a friend of hers that showed amstaffs.  The friend had 6, all crated and she left the house for short while.  She returned and the dogs had escaped from their crates.  Sadly 5/6 were dead when the friend returned.  The 6th died later.

That says nothing that would point to the dogs being "born" with natural DA. In order to know why what happened happen, we'd have to know the entire case of these dogs.

I won't put words into Jaime's mouth.  But my two cents is that if the environment is managed carefully-the pitty or amstaff will not be given a chance to live up to it's infamy.
 

Simply put, management is the key when dealing with a dog that has a history of DA in it's breed.

Management of any large powerful breed is smart. That's just common sense.

I can imagine, in the story (second hand though it is) that if the dogs in question were beagles, or poodles, or labs, or many other breeds the results would have been messy but not as deadly.

And most of those are not power breeds, and so what does that have to do with APBT supposedly being born naturally DA. And left along with the wrong kind of energy, yes, you could have the same results with, GSD's, Rotties, Dobies, and many other breeds. I knew someone who came home to find that two of her standard Schnauzers had attacked and killed the third one. A bad and "deadly situation to say the least.

And most of those are not power breeds

 
And just what is a "power" breed? 
 
You come up with something new every time you post.  Most of the time I just sit back and watch.  But the information that you are giving out could get someone hurt. 
 
No wonder so many on the forum have blocked you.

ORIGINAL: Xerxes

And most of those are not power breeds

And just what is a "power" breed? 

You come up with something new every time you post.  Most of the time I just sit back and watch.  But the information that you are giving out could get someone hurt. 

No wonder so many on the forum have blocked you.

 
Ed, haven't you heard of them? They possess abilities beyond those of normal dogs. Go Go Gadget Dog Aggression!

ORIGINAL: Xerxes

And most of those are not power breeds

And just what is a "power" breed? 

You come up with something new every time you post.  Most of the time I just sit back and watch.  But the information that you are giving out could get someone hurt. 

No wonder so many on the forum have blocked you.

 
And yet, when specific information is not given out to keep people from being hurt, this is not acceptable either. [8D]
 
Oh, you take the high road,
And I'll take the low road.
And I'll get to Scottland afore ye!
 
[sm=dance.gif]

Angelique, being a dog trainer as I see you are, and you are quite knowledgeable judging from your posts, you must see the craziness of this. In review:
 
- A-Dog claims there's no genetic basis for DA in dogs
- But, there IS a group of dogs called "power breeds" that are more likely to kill each other??
 
The statements are plain silly.

ORIGINAL: Scout in Canada

Angelique, being a dog trainer as I see you are, and you are quite knowledgeable judging from your posts, you must see the craziness of this. In review:

- A-Dog claims there's no genetic basis for DA in dogs
- But, there IS a group of dogs called "power breeds" that are more likely to kill each other??

The statements are plain silly.

 
It is simply one of those high-passioned debates, which will continue on...
 
I was just going off-topic and teasing a bit. []
 
I've been reading this thread and have heard most of the arguements before. The only things I've noticed when this topic comes up on the net in general, is many owners and proponents of certain breeds tend to say and do things which actually support BSL, rather than discount it.
 
Not uncommon really. Most folks with a passion for their favorite breed believe their dogs are different from every other dog on the planet to begin with. Just go to any breed specific website, and you will see this.
 
I have no passionate feelings either way. But, I do feel a dog is a dog first and a breed second because that is how they started out. 
 
Although breed specific traits (bred for by man skills) exist, they should neither be used as an excuse for a dog's behavior (it was "written in the stars" and there was nothing I could do to prevent it) or the owner's lack of proper fulfillment of a dog so that a specific breed's bred for by man skills, do not surface to vent frustrations and confusion.
 
I'm kind of a fence-sitter taking it all in right now.
 
 

Management of any large powerful breed is smart. That's just common sense.



And most of those are not power breeds,

I believe "large powerful breed" and "power breed" is one in the same. Dogs that are big and strong enough to do major damage.

ORIGINAL: Angelique


Oh, you take the high road,
And I'll take the low road.
And I'll get to Scottland afore ye!

[sm=dance.gif]

 
Sorry, I'm Irish, we don't go to Scottland very often. 

I was just going off-topic and teasing a bit.

 
Not allowed! No fun on the forum!! []

ORIGINAL: Xerxes

And most of those are not power breeds

And just what is a "power" breed?

As I stated before I have little time when I'm here which can cause me to make a mistake, so I'll fix it for you now, though I doupt it will help. ***Powerful breed***. If you don't know what that is, well then.

You come up with something new every time you post.  Most of the time I just sit back and watch.  But the information that you are giving out could get someone hurt.

I'm sorry, Bahahahahaha Bahahahahaha. That's really funny. Angelique hit the nail on the head, either you can't make up your mind what you want or you can't remeber what you post from thread to thread. Which is it? Because your asking me in another post to *spell out* every detail on how *I* handled a DA dog. Now, who not making sense here? I've given no information out that would get anyone hurt, and that is nothing more than your opinion. Which is wrong.

No wonder so many on the forum have blocked you.

hehehe HEHEHE hahaha HAHAHA BAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHA wait for it, BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

That's your opinion of why they blocked me. Me and some others know better. But thanks for the laugh.

I'm going to jump back in here to say this:

Angelique, I am one of those that thinks highly of their breed and I guess I could be seen as one of those that speaks against BSL but may be seen as "condoning" it because I warn others of the pit bull's tendancy towards dog aggression.

Most common every day folks do not understand the difference between human aggression and dog aggression. They go and get a pit bull. They hear the stories that the pit bull is a powerful breed (which really IS about how to describe them to a layman ear) but they don't actually GET IT. And, unfortunately, probably won't until they are out with their dog and their dog goes after another dog and either gets close to doing damage, or DOES do damage. They don't realize the control they need to exert over a pit bull (and I don't mean a forceful way of gaining control, necessarily). Even if they study the breed and its history, they still DO NOT GET IT.

Knowing the difference between human aggression and dog aggression is VERY important. It works good AND bad for those who are against BSL. Dog aggression (heck, any aggression) is unfortunate in any breed. I'm NOT using my feelings that DA is a genetic factor with pit bulls as an excuse for any pit bull's behavior. Properly managed, by the human owner who is ultimately responsible for the dog, it can be managed and NEEDS TO BE. Warning others of a breed's potential towards DA may be seen as condoning BSL or aiding it in being placed or whatever, but NOT warning others is really, honestly, what makes BSL. What's warning and explaining DA to potential adopters and buyers who are already interested in the breed, going to hurt?

Warning needs to be set in place to AVOID BSL. A potential adopter or buyer NEEDS to know that this IS a powerful breed and NEEDS to be managed and that if they aren't kept busy/focused or "controlled" their energy CAN come out as dog aggression. And often times they can and WILL attack other dogs.


It's an opinion that couldn't be anymore different than night and day.

ORIGINAL: denise m

Management of any large powerful breed is smart. That's just common sense.

I believe "large powerful breed" and "power breed" is one in the same. Dogs that are big and strong enough to do major damage.

Now how easy it was for the new person to *get it*. [sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif] What does that tell ya?

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

I'm going to jump back in here to say this:

Angelique, I am one of those that thinks highly of their breed and I guess I could be seen as one of those that speaks against BSL but may be seen as "condoning" it because I warn others of the pit bull's tendancy towards dog aggression.

Most common every day folks do not understand the difference between human aggression and dog aggression. They go and get a pit bull.

I get what you're saying and I have read everything you've posted very carefully.

Some of those who run out and get a pit also get one of these dogs for the wrong reasons (to have a tough dog) and also get them cheap from some very bad "fighting lines" because there many dogs available who will not be top fighters, although they can still pass on their lineage.

Puts the lovers of this breed in a tough spot.

On one hand you can't ignore the "bred for by man skills" even if you think of them as a dog first, because those skills may surface if the dog is not managed, fulfilled, and kept in a balanced state...and on the other hand those who do own this breed recognise that it's the people who don't acknowledge, fulfill, and manage this breed, which are the primary reason for the attacks we read about.

It's a very tough situation of "damned if you do, and damned if you don't", and the dogs pay the price.

Difficult topic, but I'm glad to see it discussed. []