who does the Discipline, exercise, and affection

ORIGINAL: DPU

The key to your second form of exercise is variations and a routine daily walk using the same route does not satify it.

Please point out where I said I "walk using the same route." Also I see lots of owners who do use the same route and their dogs look quite happy. And I must ask, you know the dog not satisfied because, they told you so?

My packs gets weekly car rides to the lake and I always take a few with me where ever I go.  Walking isn't the only way to bring a dog into the real world.

I never said it was, said it was one way of doing so. It does however provide more structure than a car ride.

BTW, are you one that exclusively follows the teachings and philosphies of CM?  Its hard for me to tell who is exclusive and who is a hyprid.  If so then I have a question for you back in the 'CM and Fear' thread.

As far as I know, I've been at this a lot longer than Cesar, so was my mentor. I unlike Cesar have worked in many aspects of dog training other than just behavior. While our philosophies are simular, mine were not learned from him nor his from mine. Therefore your "hybrid" comment is way off base. Do I admire his work, how could anyone that cares about dogs, not?

ORIGINAL: gunny1

how about walks off leash?

I see a huge difference i behavior from off leash walks. It seems it's much more free and rewarding than, a walk that is dominated by control of the leash.

Most my dogs walk off leash, just not out in front of me, nor sniffing every pee and poop spot. When we reach our play area, they are free to do as they please, at least to a point. The safety of my dogs, others dogs, as well as people, always come first.

Ok lets change it (thats why i used "), instead of "migrating" lets say that they feel the need to move foward (more than 30 feet ok?), they need to walk every day, if your dog walks every day for more than 45 minutes (not inside the house or backyard) then you dont have to worry about it
 
Since i assume that all of you walk their dogs then there is nothing to discuss about the excersice part of this thread []
 
If you apply at least NILIF then you dont have to worry about it either and I'm sure you give a lot of love to your dogs []

You could have saved time and typing by just saying you agreed.  Now since you say you are knowledgeable of CM, please go to the 'CM and Fear' thread and respond to my last post or if you like the OP.

ORIGINAL: DPU

You could have saved time and typing by just saying you agreed.  Now since you say you are knowledgeable of CM, please go to the 'CM and Fear' thread and respond to my last post or if you like the OP.

 
Ok i agree and i already did []

ORIGINAL: DPU

You could have saved time and typing by just saying you agreed.  Now since you say you are knowledgeable of CM, please go to the 'CM and Fear' thread and respond to my last post or if you like the OP.

See, here's one reason I quote people so often. I thought this was directed at me, but apparently it wasn't.

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

ORIGINAL: DPU

You could have saved time and typing by just saying you agreed.  Now since you say you are knowledgeable of CM, please go to the 'CM and Fear' thread and respond to my last post or if you like the OP.

See, here's one reason I quote people so often. I thought this was directed at me, but apparently it wasn't.

 
Ups i dont know who was directed to now hehe [&:]

ORIGINAL: DPU

You could have saved time and typing by just saying you agreed.  Now since you say you are knowledgeable of CM, please go to the 'CM and Fear' thread and respond to my last post or if you like the OP.

Although I appreciate the kind tip on how to conserve time and energy, and the use of the word "please"...

"You" who?...who is the "you" you are referring to DPU? [8D]

ORIGINAL: espencer


Ups i dont know who was directed to now hehe [&:]

LMAO it couldn't have been towards me, I didn't agree with anything.

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

Some of you probably think that because I'm a positive trainer, my dogs run this place - heck, there is, after all,  a sign on my front door that says, "This house is maintained for the comfort and security of my dogs - if you don't like that, go away."      
My dogs get over-the-top affection.  When?  When they "come", when they "high five", when they "spin", when they are lying on the couch with me being "dog of the day", when they "retrieve", when they "excuse me" (move out of the way of the human). 
When they need discipline, they get the cold shoulder (doggy style turn of the head), or the "oops" (NRM), or they are quietly placed in their crates for a time out.  I seldom need to use any of those things.  They are generally very obedient, loving, happy dogs who can sniff pee on their walks to their hearts' content, as long as we aren't "heeling", or "waiting" or I have said "leave it".   They can switch on and off, and do not have to be held to walking behind me, or holding their heads up the whole time.  I am not a leadership nazi, and yet my dogs are not applying for the position of CEO of my house - they know quite well who is in charge here.  They have all been hand fed for at least two weeks at the beginning of our relationship, whether as pups or adults - they know that I control all resources, and they know that they will be rewarded for good behavior.  I find that the key to not having to discipline so much is to "catch the dog doing something right", and reward it, not wait for them to fail, then punish.  Behavior that gets rewarded gets repeated.
They have all been taught to move out of the way of an approaching human.  They didn't get bed or couch privileges until they were housetrained and they could perform the following: sit, lie down, leave it, wait and come when called.  They understand who starts and stops all games.  They are well exercised, and well fed (natural or organic), and they have regular grooming, regular vet care, and a position of honor in our home as the wonderful species they are. 

So this sounds a lot like you use nilif, and while you use positive reinforcement, you don't use R+ only. would that be a fair statement/

That is a fair statement.  I also use "absence of a reward" as a punisher.  They completely "get it" when their behavior has not earned them a privilege, or when I am not pleased, but "oops" is usually followed by them trying again to do it right. 
I do not physically punish my dogs, although I do occasionally redirect them very gently (as when a dog breaks a stay, I might quietly lead them back to the position they just left) - very, very occasionally.  Positive, as you know, does not imply permissive, so, yes, I do use NILIF.  My dogs completely understand the concept of "working" for your keep.  "Sit" and the door opens.  "Lie down" and I might toss the tennis ball.  I incorporate these exercises into our daily routines every day.  But, do I gush all over them, hug them, and make squeaky voices at them like any other dog-crazy JQP?  Sure I do.  It's part of the fun of having them around. []

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog


Words serve very little purpose for dogs. For the most part, they're simple a waste of energy.

Ha! Tell my dog that. She's a student in English and has been for 11 years. You'd be amazed what she can pick out and understand in everyday talk. She understands a lot of individual words, as well as the general gist of common phrases, tone and inflection.

When I said she gets "told off", I meant it goes something like this: "AAGH! Stop that! Pen, here. Sit." Penny understands AAGH means stop what you're doing right now. She probably doesn't know "stop that", but she certainly knows the tone and she knows it means I'm unimpressed with her. Pen, she knows is her name. Here, she knows means come to me immediately, and sit, she also knows. No wasted energy there, and Penny knows exactly what has just happened.

ORIGINAL: corvus


Ha! Tell my dog that. She's a student in English and has been for 11 years. You'd be amazed what she can pick out and understand in everyday talk. She understands a lot of individual words, as well as the general gist of common phrases, tone and inflection.

That's a nice story to tell ones self, however, it's just that. I never said dog don't understand certain sounds, or certain "tones and inflections". They do not however have a grasp of the "human language". And until they can speak, we'll never really grasp just how many words (sounds) not phases they do understand. One trainer was trying to prove to another trainer that his dog certainly understood certain phrases. He stated his dog understood the phase "want to go for a ride" and would only respond a certain way when hearing this phrase. The other trainer said, "fine, wait a few minutes and say to your dog in the same way, "one two three hide". The dogs responce was exactly the same. Interesting, yes?

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

ORIGINAL: corvus


Ha! Tell my dog that. She's a student in English and has been for 11 years. You'd be amazed what she can pick out and understand in everyday talk. She understands a lot of individual words, as well as the general gist of common phrases, tone and inflection.

That's a nice story to tell ones self, however, it's just that. I never said dog don't understand certain sounds, or certain "tones and inflections". They do not however have a grasp of the "human language". And until they can speak, we'll never really grasp just how many words (sounds) not phases they do understand. One trainer was trying to prove to another trainer that his dog certainly understood certain phrases. He stated his dog understood the phase "want to go for a ride" and would only respond a certain way when hearing this phrase. The other trainer said, "fine, wait a few minutes and say to your dog in the same way, "one two three hide". The dogs responce was exactly the same. Interesting, yes?

 
You make a valid point.
 
My dog's direction for go to your bed is "Go check yer bones"...he-he, don't ask [], but if I said "O eh er owns", she would still go to her bed.
 
I read an interesting bit about how one trainer instructed her class to only use the names of vegetables in place of the command words. The tones and inflections were the same, and the dogs understood the direction.
 
It only takes the jingling of a set of car keys to clue my dog in on it's "time to go for a ride"...no words are needed.
 
In fact, I use more "looks", body language, and hand signals than verbage, these days.
 
A piece of duct-tape could be a very handy item when getting owners to quit jabbering at their dogs, and start communicating in a silent manner, which dogs understand very well.

Alright folks...lets get back to the topic...
"who does the Discipline, exercise, and affection"
 
Discussions on Migrating would be great in a thread all it's own.
 
On topic....
At my house...excercise, affection, training.... all combined to make happy healthy well socialized and socially accepted dogs []

ORIGINAL: gunny1

how about walks off leash?

I see a huge difference i behavior from off leash walks. It seems it's much more free and rewarding than, a walk that is dominated by control of the leash.

I love this - we have one or two beaches in the area that have off leash sections (off leash does not mean out of control - we do have rules).
Have you ever noticed that when you have dogs off leash, and leave them to their own devices, they don't walk right behind you on your left side? []   
However, I notice that mine still "check in" with me, on a more or less constant basis (think they want to know where the leader is?) and they come when I call, even if they are chasing another dog into the surf. Now, granted, herders are far more likely to do this, but the hound does it, too, and even though I seldom take Fergie off the leash, I do it occasionally on our property, and she does the same thing. Now, I suppose that my training protocols have probably contributed to that response, since they do realize who the leader is, but they have never been on a "forced march" as it were, so they got the idea from regular exercise, training, and our relationship.  NOT, from "discipline" per se. 
Here's another consideration - how many of you would let someone ELSE discipline your dog?  Not I, for sure.  But, yet, my BF issues commands, too, and as long as he makes them sound the same (uses the same words or phrases that I do), the dogs obey him.  One of the first things I do with any dog that comes here to live is to hand feed them for two weeks - and, I make him hand feed them as well.   Seems to have an effect.   .