who does the Discipline, exercise, and affection

ORIGINAL: gunny1

Now I also employ R+ training as much as I can. I do use punishment, But that does not mean it has to be painful or violent. just as a push on your shoulder from an angry friend gets the idea of  disapproval over. I think one of the biggest problems in with trainers. is they believe the punishment has to be great enough to effect change. what about constant, no hard but constant, like a someone tapping you on the shoulder.

I think you put that perfectly, now i'm not sure why i must have misunderstood you in another post.

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

Domesticated dogs left to their own devises in a back yard do not "constructively" exercise themselves regardless of what one thinks.

 
That is exactly what I do.  In the yard the play is routine.  The 3 Dane play tug-o-war and then pinwheel.  The foster play fight and chase each other.  When Danes finish they move onto chasing the dog with the object in its mouth.  The fosters are wrestling.  The Danes then "beat up" the fosters and boy is there running.  A leash walk no ways matches this exercise.

In that order? There is no way I can do that, as much as I try.

 
There's no way I want to do that. I think if you replace the word discipline with structure, it becomes more palatable.
 
Our dogs get quite a bit of exercise, weather permitting. If there are time constraints however, I always opt for the off leash variety and I don't feel the dogs need to "migrate" or walk behind me a majority of the time. The dogs get far more exercise with me walking along and them going at their own individual pace. Structure--sure, they are expected to check back with me regularly and come back if I feel they are too far away. We also have a large yard and although they are well into middle age, they play with each other a lot.
 
Structure-- they are expected to maintain certain behavior which results in a more harmonious household. Having certain rules doesn't mean that I feel they would otherwise think they needed to overturn and rule the household. It just makes it more pleasant. My friend has three teenaged sons. They aren't allowed to play football in the house--not because playing football in the house would lead to criminal behavior, but because it would be a major disruption.
 
Affection--you bet! Petting a furry body as you fall asleep is pleasant for both dog and human.
 

ORIGINAL: DPU

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

Domesticated dogs left to their own devises in a back yard do not "constructively" exercise themselves regardless of what one thinks.

That is exactly what I do.  In the yard the play is routine.  The 3 Dane play tug-o-war and then pinwheel.  The foster play fight and chase each other.  When Danes finish they move onto chasing the dog with the object in its mouth.  The fosters are wrestling.  The Danes then "beat up" the fosters and boy is there running.  A leash walk no ways matches this exercise.

It's not meant to. There are two forms of "exercise". There's play, which most pups do as well as domesticated adults. Then there's constructive exercise, which is a important part of the learning by "observation". The walk brings a dog into the real world and allows them to learn about it. Playing in a yard, does not.

Domesticated dogs left to their own devises in a back yard do not "constructively" exercise themselves regardless of what one thinks.

 
That's crap.  Where did you get that idea from?  Maybe dogs who have a 10X10 back yard.  But my dogs have plenty to keep them moving.  Deer, ground hogs, chickens, ducks and the great outdoors.  Often, my dogs disappear and takes them some time to return once I call them.  Hum..  wonder where they were?  wonder what they were doing?  They come back soak and wet, oh.. they were swimming..  how nice!

ORIGINAL: luvmyswissy


That's crap.

Awww how sweet. I'm starting to see a double standerd on this site.

Where did you get that idea from? 

So your saying, children who go to chucky cheese are getting the same mental constructive learning as those who attend school?

Care to say I'm full of crap again, or can you comment like an adult.

Are we talking children or dogs?

Sorry don't know how the double occured.  My real post follows this.

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog
It's not meant to. There are two forms of "exercise". There's play, which most pups do as well as domesticated adults. Then there's constructive exercise, which is a important part of the learning by "observation". The walk brings a dog into the real world and allows them to learn about it. Playing in a yard, does not.

The key to your second form of exercise is variations and a routine daily walk using the same route does not satify it.  My packs gets weekly car rides to the lake and I always take a few with me where ever I go.  Walking isn't the only way to bring a dog into the real world.

BTW, are you one that exclusively follows the teachings and philosphies of CM?  Its hard for me to tell who is exclusive and who is a hyprid.  If so then I have a question for you back in the 'CM and Fear' thread.

 
 
Dogs:
 
My dogs get their mental stimulation and teaching from me with assistance from their ongoing training classes.  They get there exercise from the freedom of going outside and having play and adventure time – in addition to the socialization they received from attending formal classes.
 
My Children:
 
They get their education from formal School and they get there socialization and exercise from extra curriculum activity, freedom to play with there friends and yes, chucky cheese.

ORIGINAL: luvmyswissy

Dogs:

My dogs get their mental stimulation and teaching from me with assistance from their ongoing training classes.  They get there exercise from the freedom of going outside and having play and adventure time – in addition to the socialization they received from attending formal classes.

 
Well i guess you are exempt since not a lot of people have 3 acres as their "backyard" []
 

ORIGINAL: Stacita

I don't feel the dogs need to "migrate" or walk behind me a majority of the time. The dogs get far more exercise with me walking along and them going at their own individual pace.

 
Actually thats "migrating"

Migrating vs. Walking.

Do dogs translate *every* walk with us to migration? I might be wrong, but I don't think so.
The purpose of migration is survival. The purpose of a regular walk is just that - excise, pee, fun, etc. I think dogs can tell the difference by reading you, the owner (your body language, direction of your energy, the seriousness of your intent, etc.). I also think dogs understand contexts to a certain degree.

We camp a lot. My dog, who usually pulls during walks in town, is always at our side during camping. I think *that's* migration in his mind. How can he tell? Because of the way I act - it's important to me that I put up a tent before darkness, that I get wood, that I don't get lost in those often nasty "jungles" (some parks are not very well taken care of-but that's another story). After setting up a tent, we go get wood, and when we come back to the site, the dog always acts very careful. He is always behind us, sniffing the air: "Did anybody take our den?" That's migration, I think.

If I am in town, and I happily say - "Let's go for a walk!" and start walking away from our house, my dog, as I mentioned before usually pulls sniffing, zigzagging around, looking to see if any of his doggy friends are around. When we come back home, he doesn't sniff the "den", like he does when we camp, he is confident. I think he knows the intent of our walk is not "survival". That's my opinion about that at the moment.

I'm a little iffy on migration. The intermediary stage between our domestic dogs and wolves/wild canids is the feral or village dog. These dogs aren't owned by anyone, they're not any particular breed, they aren't selectively bred, they just hang out in the village and scavange. They don't migrate. They know a good thing when they see it (human garbage free for the taking!) and they tend to stick around. Why do more work than you have to?

ORIGINAL: luvmyswissy

Are we talking children or dogs?

While I Do Not, humanize dogs, they have play time and constructive learning in their natural lives the same as children do.

how about walks off leash?
 
I see a huge difference i behavior from off leash walks. It seems it's much more free and rewarding than, a walk that is dominated by control of the leash.