Is aggression allowed in your pack?

ORIGINAL: sheprano

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[linkhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&list_uids=16765334&cmd=Retrieve&indexed=google]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&list_uids=16765334&cmd=Retrieve&indexed=google[/link]

[linkhttp://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1439-0442.2006.00840.x]http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1439-0442.2006.00840.x[/link]

[linkhttp://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00027.htm]http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00027.htm[/link]


[linkhttp://www.realpitbull.com/fight.html]http://www.realpitbull.com/fight.html[/link]

[linkhttp://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/thoughts.html]http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/thoughts.html[/link]

I think the link in your sig is the best one (i think i was the one that showed that one to you) []

ORIGINAL: espencer

I think the link in your sig is the best one (i think i was the one that showed that one to you) []

 
YES actually, about 2 years ago or so and sepite all of the ones that have been composed since then, this one touches me the most. Although I've really only watched twice, thats was enough

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

I find many times it's not my own dogs judgement or socialization that is suspect...but the dog that runs up off lead lol! My Akitas used to really inspire some interesting reactions in other dogs...their owners would be so suprised "she's normally so friendly..." as their pooch is snarling and lunging at my dog..lol!

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Rude behavior

Sheprano, I understand you're very agitated, but could you please stay on topic. It's not fair to flood the thread with personal comments that are less than friendly.

ORIGINAL: corvus

Sheprano, I understand you're very agitated, but could you please stay on topic. It's not fair to flood the thread with personal comments that are less than friendly.

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Rude and attacking behavior

Well, since this is the "CM" area, I will give my interpretations of what Cesar says on this topic.

A dog is a dog, first = species dog.

A dog as a "breed", second = bred for by man.

All dogs can be defined by specific behavioral and social traits. Similar to the wolf, but changed and domesticated by man.

When we take the dog and then through man's intervention and design, we breed certain "skills" into them, we have to understand these skills as more than each breed being only a "dog".

If a dog is not fulfilled by Mother Nature's design, their behavioral and/or social problems can surface through the skills the were bred for by man to acheive.

If a beagle or an akita's needs as are not fulfilled by following Mother Nature's basic needs for fulfillment, the "area" any breed of dog uses to vent frustration, will come out in their bred for by man skills.

A frustrated (excess energy) pit might vent frustration by aggression on another dog, where as a beagle might put his nose to the ground and "scent" in circles to relieve the same amount of frustrated energy or lack of direction and leadership from their owner.

A dog is a dog, first. A dog as a breed, is secondary. Where the dog vents it's frustration or unfulfilled energy will come out it's bred for by man areas.

ETA: Researching your breed's "bred for by man" skills and specifics is a definate heads-up for where their frustration level may surface.

To label a certain breed in a certain light as this will always happen with every dog of that breed no matter how they are interacted with or fulfilled by their human, is too much of a generalisation.

Brain hurting...must rest...[8D]

If a beagle or an akita's needs as are not fulfilled by following Mother Nature's basic needs for fulfillment, the "area" any breed of dog uses to vent frustration, will come out in their designed by man skills.

To again stay on the topic at hand...breed does IMO matter when you are deciding what is acceptable amounts and expression of aggression within your pack, just like the sex of the dog matters...sexual status of the dog matters...innate character and natural dominance. It is something worthy of consideration...and not considering it can really lead to problems.....as in the one case Cesar had with the Akita...that owner actually came to this forum, and spoke to me at length about her Akita...it was very interesting to hear about their household 'post Cesar'.

To label a certain breed

 
IMO generalisations are part and parcel of the purebred dog...and the selection of a breed, if a purebred is your choice...can be made easier because of them...
 
Mistakes can be avoided by knowing these generalisations, we share them often in the "what breed for me?" threads...and IMO they are not always a negative...but a positive if  they keep someone from making a choice of a dog that does not fit their pack...or their lifestyle.
 
OT Corvus...apologies [] 
I will be on topic from here out promise!

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

If a beagle or an akita's needs as are not fulfilled by following Mother Nature's basic needs for fulfillment, the "area" any breed of dog uses to vent frustration, will come out in their designed by man skills.

To again stay on the topic at hand...breed does IMO matter when you are deciding what is acceptable amounts and expression of aggression within your pack, just like the sex of the dog matters...sexual status of the dog matters...innate character and natural dominance. It is something worthy of consideration...and not considering it can really lead to problems.....as in the one case Cesar had with the Akita...that owner actually came to this forum, and spoke to me at length about her Akita...it was very interesting to hear about their household 'post Cesar'.

Was it this board where I saw this? So hard to remember all of the sites I've read through!

From what I remember, after Cesar's session, the owners of Katie the akita and the street dog Alice, received some sort of recommendation from Patricia McConnell in support of their rehoming Alice for the good of everyone involved.

Have you heard how things are going?

Gina, your point is indeed well taken. Breed tendency as well as tendencies of an individual should be taken into account. I think I need to talk to you at some point about akitas, seeing as I'm thinking seriously of getting one. A breeder I spoke to has a male who deals with challenges simply by lying on the upstart. The only time he's ever caused damage was when someone put their vicious heeler in his yard. He pinned the dog, but it kept trying to kill him, so he bit it and that sent the dog to the vet. It made me feel much better about potential dog fights with an akita, but I guess that akita may be unusual.

It's not as unusual as you think.  The akita is a thinking breed.  I think they actually reason at times.  My family had one-his packmates were pekes.  He'd been attacked by those two pekes on several occasions.  The bitch (who turned 17 last month) was the worst attacker.  Several times he would just maneuver her around, pin her between his paws and pin her to the ground while awaiting a human to take control.

He would be chewing on a toy and the littel male peke would come over and begin to "steal" the toy.  Shiloh, the akita would suddenly decide that something over there (the opposite direction of the peke) was very interesting and he'd stare over there for a few minutes until Sammy had safely taken the toy and was away from striking distance.

Conversely all three were walking (on lead) and a loose dog charged through the middle of the pack.  In less than the blink of an eye that dog had a 7inch gash in it's shoulder.  No warning, no snapping, no barking.  Akitas mean business and they mean business NOW, when it comes to protecting the pack.

A loose dog from next door (japanese chin) managed to run into our house one day.  He ran right into the akita and promptly bellied up.  Shiloh barely even sniffed him.

So while some akitas are much more prone to aggression, others are more likely to assess a threat and respond immediately and then just as immediately resume whatever they were doing.

ORIGINAL: Angelique

To label a certain breed in a certain light as this will always happen with every dog of that breed no matter how they are interacted with or fulfilled by their human, is too much of a generalisation.

Brain hurting...must rest...[8D]

 
And a well deserved rest at that.  Good job and know you educated at least one.
[sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif]

Last I heard was that the Akita was still being an Akita...and I referred her to an Akita specific board, I do not know if she actually went there tho...
 
The Akita I believe was the one that she was thinking of rehoming, as they did want to someday be a multi dog family.

ORIGINAL: sheprano

Thats just fine, I'm no longer going to participate in this forum AT ALL-EVER

 
Good bye Sheprano and I hope you come back.  Your love and understanding of Rory has helped me build that same bridge with my Newt.  I do enjoy your posts and reading about Rory.

I actually appreciate it when a member posts scientific information that backs up a theory or position.  In my opinion, it's too bad to lose that aspect of sheprano's presence here.  I tried to PM, but no luck.  I think sheprano may have dropped from the member list, too.  [sm=sad.gif][sm=peace.gif]

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs
I think sheprano may have dropped from the member list, too.  [sm=sad.gif][sm=peace.gif]

Yeah the pics on the sig are gone, i dont know if thats a bad sign, Anne, would you PM me too if i do the same? []