That Pack O' Pits

ORIGINAL: Nikki_Burr

I know C.M. can be a controversial topic, but one thing I'd like to say about him is the fact that I absolutely love seeing his ginormous pack of Pit Bulls!  Setting aside every other factor than that they are all Pits (a notoriously dog aggressive breed) and all living together in perfect harmony, I think it is a wonderful thing to show on TV...helps dispell some of those negative stereotypes against the poor breed.  I must say I am continually impressed by how he is able to help Pit owners control their dogs, as I'm sure we all know, an out of control Pit is unfortunately one who is all too soon euthanized... []  I feel he is helping the world to see that Pits aren't all about dog fighting and can be wonderful companions as well.  Two thumbs up for C.M. from that particular angle!

 
Cesar has done a lot to dispell the myth that pitties are born killers. His pack is composed of a variety of breeds. I think the pit part of the entire pack consists of about 6 to eight dogs, but I'm not sure.
 
One of the things I've learned from him is he sees all dogs as dogs first, and each breed which was created by man contains certain "skills" which will come out if a dog becomes frustrated or unstable.
 
His pack is truely amazing.
 
An unstable beagle might run around the yard endlessly with it's nose to the ground to vent excess energy, where as a pit might start "locking in" on another dog simply because these skills were bred into them, so that is where they will channel their frustration.
 
 

I looooooooooooooove it!!! I comented on this in another thread.

I just LOVE that he represents the breed in a positive way, and makes it clear that it really truely IS the owner that produces the outcome of either a great example of the breed, or a poor one.

He KNOWS how to handle the breed, and how to teach other people how to handle the breed in a correct, and approriate manner.

He is fantastic.

CM is also quite vocally against BSL. He is an advocate for the bully breeds and other breeds seen as threatening and difficult, such as Rotties and Huskies. I do think it is equally impressive that he has, on average 35 dogs of differing breeds, all getting along in the compound.
 
He is also an advocate of spay/neuter. For all the reasons. It curbs behavior in some, provides some health benefit, and reduces accidental breedings in the world, at large.
 

It is easier to keep same gender Pits together if they are male than if they are female, and, while it is nice to represent the breed in a positive light, just for the sake of the lurkers here, it doesn't always work out that well, and this is still a breed that needs a savvy owner who is not going to just assume that because another owner's dogs live in harmony, that you can go ahead and take your Pit to the local dog park to make new friends.
Dogs that live within a pack treat their packmates differently than they treat outsiders.  This is still a breed that has some nice individuals, and some individuals whose breeding is closer to the fighting lines, so owner beware and protect your dog.  Don't assume that because it works for Cesar it will work for you.  My dogs live in a harmonious pack, too, but that doesn't mean that they would accept every single dog in the Universe.  Sometimes, it just ain't gonna work.

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

My dogs live in a harmonious pack, too, but that doesn't mean that they would accept every single dog in the Universe.  Sometimes, it just ain't gonna work.

You are the leader of your pack, you set the discipline, boundries and limitations, if you decide to bring a new member to your pack then that pack has to follow your rules, just as the do with food, excersice, play time etc. you cant make her following some of your rules and no others, if your pack is truly balanced they will accept any unbalanced dog under your supervision, it is YOUR pack, you decide who comes and who goes, a well balanced pack will always respect that and welcome anybody that you want to bring with a "smile in their faces"

CM brings very bad behaved dogs to his pack as last resort, because he knows the pack will welcome that dog, it does not matter who that dog is or what his behavior is, CM knows that dog will be picking the energy of the balanced pack and the pack will make him change for the better, not the other way, so yes, if you have a pack like CM you can bring every single dog in the universe and they will accept him/her with calm energy []

I bet there has been not only one single dog that his pack didnt accept

A dog doesn't necessarily like every other dog he meets, just as I don't like every other person I meet.  Some personalities are incompatible.  Some pairings or groupings might settle wonderfully under CM or similar professional with a great deal of experience - but the same group simply won't in a run of the mill house hold.  Also (not sure if this is what spiritodgs meant) just because the pack is harmonious and balanced doesn't mean they will each always like every dog they meet in the park, nor should we expect them to.  Expecting obedience, setting the rules, and projecting the right "energy" is all very well but I think spiritdogs has made an excellent point - safety is paramount, protect your dog.

In addition, I think your last statement has no basis in fact or experience.  Certainly, with the years CM has under his belt I'd be astonished if he wasn't able to successfully integrate the vast majority of animals into his pack with the minimum of problems.  But I doubt very much he has success with every last one and I doubt he has always had the level of success he has now.  He's on a learning curve, same as the rest of us.

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

A dog doesn't necessarily like every other dog he meets, just as I don't like every other person I meet.  Some personalities are incompatible.  Some pairings or groupings might settle wonderfully under CM or similar professional with a great deal of experience - but the same group simply won't in a run of the mill house hold.  Also (not sure if this is what spiritodgs meant) just because the pack is harmonious and balanced doesn't mean they will each always like every dog they meet in the park, nor should we expect them to.  Expecting obedience, setting the rules, and projecting the right "energy" is all very well but I think spiritdogs has made an excellent point - safety is paramount, protect your dog.

In addition, I think your last statement has no basis in fact or experience.  Certainly, with the years CM has under his belt I'd be astonished if he wasn't able to successfully integrate the vast majority of animals into his pack with the minimum of problems.  But I doubt very much he has success with every last one and I doubt he has always had the level of success he has now.  He's on a learning curve, same as the rest of us.

Oh i agree that CM maybe didnt have as much success with every dog before but today he is showing it can be done if you know how, so you are basing your statement on the past, not the present, just like saying that Michael Jordan was not as good when he was younger, well thats logical, but thats the past, in the present he show us that it can be done and we cant say is not possible

Like i said, if your dog is truly balanced he wont care if the new dog is aggressive, he wont care is is hyper, he wont care if it is annoying, because your dog trust you that you will protecting him from the new dog, your dog will know that your will bring the new dog to a balanced and calm behavior by also setting the discipline, boundries and limitations that you have with him, if your pack is truly balanced, the new dog will change his behavior, the new dog will stop being aggressive because the pack shows him there is nothing to be aggressive about, that any member of the pack will harm him, the new dog will "feed" himself from the energy of the balanced pack

Of course that if you bring a hyper dog, you dont do anything about it and you let him be hyper still inside the pack then there is going to be problems, hyperactivity is not a balanced energy and the pack would try to correct that behavior if you dont, if you set the boundries and excersice the dog to make him not be hyper anymore then the pack will accept it as any other normal member

And thats the same with every dog, the ultimate good behavior is a calm behavior, if you achieve the new dog to be like that that pack would accept him/her, if you bring an unbalanced dog and just throw him into the pack then  what you are saying is going to happen, if your dog does not like another dog is because your dog is not socialized or because your dog is not a well behaved dog, if you let your own dog know that your dont like the way he/she is acting towards the new dog (i.e taking a dominant posture also against a doimant dog) then he/she will stop doing it  
CM brings his own dogs to help him rehabilitate other dogs, why? because at the end the new dog takes the "good vibes" from CM dogs and goes back to normal, if you set good discipline, boundries and limitations to your and the new dogs then it can be done, you can never say is impossible, if your say it is then you are setting yourself for that, you are putting yourself barriers and of course you would blame the dogs "personality" "oh is my dog the one who does not like that other" no, is you because you are not letting your dog know his attitude towards the new dog is not acceptable

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

just because the pack is harmonious and balanced doesn't mean they will each always like every dog they meet in the park, nor should we expect them to.

 

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

I doubt very much he has success with every last one

 
I've just been perusing Flying Dog Press (one of my fave sites recently) and she makes a very good point that nothing and no one - be it person, dog, method, machine, whatever - is infallible.

ORIGINAL: espencer

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

My dogs live in a harmonious pack, too, but that doesn't mean that they would accept every single dog in the Universe.  Sometimes, it just ain't gonna work.

You are the leader of your pack, you set the discipline, boundries and limitations, if you decide to bring a new member to your pack then that pack has to follow your rules, just as the do with food, excersice, play time etc. you cant make her following some of your rules and no others, if your pack is truly balanced they will accept any unbalanced dog under your supervision, it is YOUR pack, you decide who comes and who goes, a well balanced pack will always respect that and welcome anybody that you want to bring with a "smile in their faces"

CM brings very bad behaved dogs to his pack as last resort, because he knows the pack will welcome that dog, it does not matter who that dog is or what his behavior is, CM knows that dog will be picking the energy of the balanced pack and the pack will make him change for the better, not the other way, so yes, if you have a pack like CM you can bring every single dog in the universe and they will accept him/her with calm energy []

I bet there has been not only one single dog that his pack didnt accept

So, tell me again how many times you have brought strange dogs into your own pack??  First of all, the purpose for introducing dogs to one another before adopting a new dog is to see if they will like each other.  If they don't, it's rather like forcing yourself to like that blind date that your friends fixed you up with - you know, the one with the "good personality". []  While I am certainly my dogs' leader, I am not inclined to force my dogs to "submit" to having dogs enter the pack that they cannot stand.   I prefer to avoid trouble by making an assessment based on the existing composition of the pack, and the chance that the new dog will fit nicely into it.  But, of course, for those intent on forcing their dogs to comply with everything else, I suppose it just follows that they want to force them to like dogs they don't like.
If you have ever run play groups, you will find that there are some dogs who will never play with certain other dogs, and some that will play with any dog - others that will not engage in physical play, but will play the chase game, etc.  Dogs are not automatons.

One day I will be as articulate as you!  Thats pretty much what I meant.

Ah! This has turned into another debate and is a bit off topic!
 
Let's talk about Pitties people [] This is so exciting for me, hehehe.
 
Spiritdogs--Have you actually ever OWNED  an APBT or SBT or AST??? I'd really like to know...

ORIGINAL: espencer

Oh i agree that CM maybe didnt have as much success with every dog before but today he is showing it can be done if you know how, so you are basing your statement on the past, not the present, just like saying that Michael Jordan was not as good when he was younger, well thats logical, but thats the past, in the present he show us that it can be done and we cant say is not possible .....

Espencer,  I am interested in how CM introduces a new dog to the pack and why his know-how is unique to his method.  I am particularly interested in the setting and CM's involvement in the meeting.  I have 3 dogs of my own and I foster 2-3 for a rescue group.  My rescue group sends me the dogs that appear to have "get along” problems with the residence dog.  I have had successful introduction with every last one of them so I believe CM can have a perfect record.  

To make Dulce Pit Bull happy, the last dog I introduced to the pack was a ittie mix, Newt.  

why his know-how is unique to his method.

 
Growing up, CM observed packs of dogs and how they behave. Not just one or two, but big packs. And even in those domesticated non-wolf dogs, he saw rank and order. And a pack leader.
 

I did not grow up observing pack dynamics.  I started to consciously observe pack behavior only since I came to I-dog.  Prior to that it was mostly common sense and it sounds I am as successful as CM.  What is CM's technique of introduction?  I want to compare to mine.  I think 6 dogs with a combined weight of close to 700lbs is a big pack.  I have introduced 1 on 5, 2 on 5, and 1 on 1.  Each is a different situation and requires a different plan. 
 
The pack leader's role is also what I am interested in.